One more before bed.

So basically, working toward female issues involving domestic violence etc. Iggy are so big that nipping at the heels of some false perception of sexism is okay. That's supposed to have people take women seriously.

I brought up that I am a housewife for one reason. Radicals hate people like me. What they hate more than the fact that I love to take care of my own in a traditional manner is the fact that I have done everything in my life on my own terms. I have hidden behind feminism to succeed in a male dominated world. I always did as I wanted to when I was working. I left that world because I could, can go back to it if I wish, and that I have no desire to makes me even more hated by this type of person.

If you go through life thinking that men are out to hold you down, or that every little sign that has a masculine connotation is an insult, that's sad. If combating sexism is really so important to you, then go about it in an intelligent way and tackle those "too big" issues. All this does is drive hypocrisy and resentment by those that are sexist. And it makes a lot of women roll their eyes and feel embarrassed for their gender.

It's a democratic society, by the way. The majority does rule and should rule or there is no democracy. The minority opinions should be weighed in, but if they involve something petty and wasteful to the taxpayer, they need to be struck down until the majority does care. Making them care is your problem.

Anyhow, I'm bored. Later.

But it doesn't mean that the minority should get their way on every petty little thing if they bark enough. You miss the point here. This isn't an atrocity, and your bringing the Holocaust, Jim Crow, etc... into a debate about the use of language in a road sign is cheap, because there isn't an atrocity being committed here. There isn't a life or death situation at stake. It's a sign that a few yapping radicals find offensive because they choose to be offended by the pettiest of things. Crying "sexism" over every little thing does not earn a person respect. The majority should rule in things like this because they are the majority and it's their money going into these signs that are only meaningful to overly sensitive radicals that few people really care about.

Anyhow, good night.

It doesn't change anything, Lenore. Point is, Spanish, English, whatever, prejudices exist no matter what you dress it up ass word wise.

And really, what a cheap shot, Lenore. A sign, the use of language, hardly compare to the Holocaust. You really shouldn't cheapen atrocities that way.

Lenore, I just read your first response. No, it's not stupid. It's not the same as upgrading a computer because it doesn't equate to the same amount of productivity. The sign itself is useful for drivers approaching the site, but whether it says men or people are at work doesn't change the function of the sign. So, call it stupid if you will, but in the end, that sign isn't doing anything for the job. If you want a worker to take pride in their work, hire someone who's going to do that regardless, not someone that's going to pout because the sign doesn't validate them. What they do is what validates them as employees regardless of gender. So, yeah, they should get over it. That 1/50 of a cent doesn't need to go into anyone's ego trip.

This sign issue is maybe the stupidest thing I've ever heard. If that's what these so called women feel they need to feel equal or valid, then they are pathetic individuals in need of some real meaning in their lives.

@Lenore

I know the history of the N word. It was acceptable at one time, but always offensive. It was not meant to make a slave feel proud of himself. So, in reality, it was never a nice word. As for Negro, in Spanish, that is the term used and it was never offensive. I don't use it because in English, it's like saying "groovy" or "the cat's pajamas" and "square" and doesn't come to me naturally, but it's not that alien or offensive. And by the way, one of my grandparents is black.

And it comes down to the majority. The majority never even noticed, cared, or cares now about that sign. It's just someone out to make a public point in the worst way possible and it's insulting to all women if they just look at it without feeling like they have to band together and fight the man. Seriously, why hide behind other women and not just be an individual?

As for my doing something productive? I do, actually, but I would rather do for animals in need than people. They are more appreciative. They don't talk. They don't care if someone messes up on their gender. I have all sorts of time to take up pet causes, and I do that. Radical feminists are not one of them.

I'm female, by the way, Iggy. I have worked with men, and actually prefer to work with men, and found that you are treated as an equal if you deserve it. And guess what? I am a housewife now. A housewife with a degree that thinks terms like homemaker and domestic administrator are pompous BS terms. Call me what you want but I scrub that toilet and iron those shirts all the same. My husband and I are a team effort and have all the respect in the world for one another because neither of us feel that what the other does is more or less and we aren't in a competition. And when we take that little sports car out on the track, I still win, and not because he lets me. I am more empowered than any fluffed up radical feminist that feels she needs to act like an alpha male bully to get her way.

Well, Iggy, it's like this. Those feminists are the only ones that care. They are in the minority. Ta da. If the women on the road crews want it so badly, they can pay for the signs. Not that many people care.It's not a step toward equality. It's not helping anyone's cause. In fact, it's just going to breed resentment among those that would rather see that money go toward something that actually improves the community rather than stroke the ego of a small bunch of women with nothing better to do with their time and who think they are still in college and that the world can be changed if someone throws a war and no one shows up.

Acknowledgement comes in a pay check, a promotion, a pension, not a stupid sign that no one really notices. Respect comes with the individual that earns it through action. They are very different things. I can acknowledge a terrorist, but that doesn't mean that I respect them.

@c-dub, actually, I do see where you are misunderstanding the point. A word like "bitch" is a vulgarity, as is the N word. Those are words not used in polite company anyway. Big difference from saying "broad" and "lady". If a person is forced to say "lady" when they mean "broad", the only change is in the language, not the attitude, and that's where the hypocrisy comes in. Say what you mean or don't say it at all. PC takes honesty out of the equation. And at the very least, be accurate. Do you think a "mentally challenged" child chose that "challenge"? I'm not saying that we should point and laugh and say, "Look at the little 'tard." I'm just saying that sugarcoating language doesn't change reality, and it certainly doesn't change attitude. If that were the case, we could just solve every wrong that people do one another with language. I don't believe that women and black people claiming the N or C words to change the connotation by using it are doing themselves any favors either. They just look stupid.

Acknowledgement and respect are two very different things. And if those women on the road crew don't care what the sign says, aren't they really the only ones that matter?

A sign does not equate to equal treatment just as words don't, neither does language. If one is asking for acknowledgement, they are asking for a pat on the back. Is anyone patting those guys on the back? A sign surely isn't. They don't care what it says either, no doubt.

The radical feminist that is so overly sensitive that she can't drive by a "men at work" sign without getting bent out of shape over it is looking for the drama. She is the radical that seeks to oppress the oppressor. Having taken tedious classes during my uni years on Feminist Philosophy, I do know what I am talking about. The changing of language is a misguided attempt to gain an upper hand.

Personally, I don't care what the sign says, but when it costs even 1/5 of a penny to change it for the taxpayer because one small radical, man hating group has issues with it, then I have a problem. And trust me, this is the type of feminist that thinks all forms of sex between men and women equate to rape and a power struggle. I don't have a problem with feminism until it becomes radical in this manner. I hate radicals of any kind, and I will say that at the risk of sounding radical myself.

A bigot is going to say one thing and think another no matter how much you drum language into them. That's the bottom line about language. It's not changing what was changing just fine on its own.

@Lenore

I have to disagree. The use of language has not affected the way people are treated. I'm not talking about use of the N-word. That's not a word that has ever been truly acceptable, but if you take the term African American (here goes a tangent), first of all, black is not a bad or negative word any more than white is. Secondly, African American suggests division (thought I don't feel it creates it) and is inaccurate. Division because it separates people from being simply American, inaccurate because most AA's in the US don't have a relative in living memory that has ever even set foot in Africa. Seriously, my parents were born in Cuba, but that doesn't make me Cuban-American. Secondly, as a person married to a white man from Africa, if we were to move to the States, he would have more of a right to be referred to as an AA than any black person out there, but that would never happen because everyone wants to hang onto this facade of being multicultural by using all the right phrases.

Society doesn't need a sanitization of language to "change" anything, because it doesn't. That change has come gradually through the different movements that concentrated on equality through realistic and intelligent means. Language that is sanitized and changed to please some perverse need create a new word for everything is as I have said before, breeding hypocrisy. It is much easier to hide behind PC terms and act in racist/sexist ways. I've been there/done that working in the construction industry. To be offended by a "men at work" sign is just looking to be offended and chomping at the bit for drama.

Furthermore, I could care less about acknowledgement so long as I am getting the pay check and the respect on the job that I deserve. I don't deserve it for the mere fact that I am a woman, but because I do my job well and treat everyone fairly. That is why when I was working, I did very well in the corporate, male dominated environment. I don't see men and women, I see people, and I don't stick to my kind when they don't deserve it. Having a set of ovaries doesn't make a person more deserving, as many feminists seem to think because they are in a mindset that the oppressed should become the oppressor. If the sign says "men at work" and I am on that road crew, who cares? I am not out to prove anything to anyone that's driving by. I really don't care about the perceptions of others, nor do I need a pat on the back. That's asking not for equality, but for superiority.

Gender neutrality is a silly notion created by silly people who found that after the womens' movement began to make serious strides, they were losing their relevance. Therefore, they started to get more vocal about changing the language, which again, means nothing. Rather than doing productive things for women, they sit around looking for things to complain and whine about. No one in their right mind respects a whiner, and I have zero respect for this woman who is out to change road signs, nor do I have any respect for the City of Atlanta for complying. There are better, more useful things to do.

He's cute!

@c-dub then you obviously misunderstand the whole idea behind language affecting reality and political correctness. That, or you are being purposely dense in order to try and get a rise out of me, which won't happen. Nice try, though.

Your comment to Tim also show your insistence in being dramatic and purposely thick.

This is true, Ratz. I hadn't thought of that. I was brought up Catholic and try to forget that I was every day.

Creative new ways to rip people off. Niiiiice.

Yes, c-dub, you just didn't like my response. You say language affects reality. Well, I've given some examples where it hasn't. Because that's what things like this sign are all about. Changing the language to give some nit picker a sense of satisfaction even though it isn't changing anyone's attitude. So, no language doesn't change reality, and those who just run around wanting to change the language and get bent out of shape because people are saying "mankind", "manhole cover", and "men at work" are too lazy and too deluded to try and make real changes, making all women look like idiots in the process.

I believe in equality, but I earn my respect as an individual, not by strong arming people into using gender neutral words, which to me, merits no respect.

Tell that to African Americans who still deal with racism on a daily basis, or to the mentally challenged, who are still getting stared and snickered at by the insensitive, c-dub. Really, it's all just a way to find sneakier ways to be racist, insensitive, sexist, or otherwise underhanded. It's only breeding a hypocritical culture. But, whatever, you are allowed to fool yourself. I prefer reality myself, thank you.