Cops Raid a House to Find Christmas Trees Under a Grow Light: Where's the Probable Cause Now?

1. nick
   December 7th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

   hey copper, mister crime stopper. whats wrong with what were doing? we like to dance, in our goat skin pants...

2. lurky
   December 7th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

   Hahaha! The law just got busted!

3. Skipweasel
   December 7th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

   I'm sure it's all terribly clever, and the cops shouldn't be behaving badly, but if entrapment isn't allowed one way - surely it's not fair to pull it in reverse.

4. Skully
   December 7th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

   Oh, it is very fair in reverse!

5. Theory
   December 7th, 2008 at 2:02 pm

   Why would anyone want to prat about like this? Those people sound so smug and smart-arsed.

   "Hey guys, I'll pretend to do something bad when I'm not and see how the grown-ups react! It'll be SO funny when they realise!"

   (Having written that, I've realised that they're likely getting money from the "news" networks for airing their footage.)

6. attilla
   December 7th, 2008 at 2:08 pm

   Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do?

7. TB
   December 7th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

   Why would anyone want to prat about like this?

   To point out the corruption in a judicial system maybe.

8. ChrisW
   December 7th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

   When the criminals stop victimizing the public then I'll start worrying about probable cause. It should be illegal to pretend to be doing something illegal just to bait cops.

9. Ashley
   December 7th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

   From the article:
   "Cooper chose to bait the Odessa police department because he believes police there instructed an informant to plant marijuana on a woman named Yolanda Madden. She’s currently serving an eight-year sentence for possession with intent to distribute. According to Cooper, the informant actually admitted in federal court that he planted the marijuana. Madden was convicted anyway."

   So he had good reason for doing this, not just to bait cops.

10. Corinne
    December 7th, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    I agree wholly with what they are doing.

11. kris
    December 7th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    Hahaha, my parents live in Odessa! I didn't expect to see the town on Neatorama. I've never heard of Kopbusters before, but it's a good way to bring attention to cases like Yolanda Madden's. Thanks, Ashley, for adding that into the comments.

12. AMercer
    December 7th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    This is an example of how some police do not have any respect for the rights of citizens. These police should be removed from the force. Those who use illegal tactics to arrest people do not deserve to have any power whatsoever. In fact, those that use illegal tactics should be in prison themselves. Remember, these police broke the law here. They are the ones who are the criminals in this case. It was not entrapment

    "Entrapment is the act of a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offence which the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit."
    From Wiki.

    These police begain their investigation with illigal FLIR surveillance and then moved to producing fake informants to cover the violation of the bill of rights. They were not tricked into doing their illegal deeds. What this lawyer did was not entrapment. It was more like honey trap, such as a bait car to catch people who steal cars. This was a perfectly valid trap the police fell into. Those responsible should be forced to turn in their badges.

13. Sofar
    December 7th, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    I wonder though, would we feel the same way about this if the detectives in question were not trying to uncover something that a great many of us think should be legalized, but trying to solve a murder?

14. Max Power
    December 7th, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    Dear surveillance-supporters,

    the way you prefer to live life does not always provoke a full verbal discussion of the topic as your flaws are of emotional and intellectual nature, not a miscalculation of the circumstances within your horizon.

15. Greg M
    December 7th, 2008 at 4:43 pm

    We're going to be seeing more and more sneaky tactics like this as drug prohibition starts to prove itself as effective as alcohol prohibition.

    In my view, this guy is a hero for pointing out the extreme abuses and unconstitutional behavior that underlies the war on drugs. The situation is even more dire in BC, Canada. Cops don't even need a warrant-- they can just ride in on a mandatory "safety inspection" if the state-run hydro company sees unusually high electrical usage. This has affected many innocent people, from seniors growing tomatoes to nerds with several servers running all day.

    The Drug War is totally out of hand. We need an honest total reassessment of drug policy.

16. bruno
    December 7th, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    "While I find this approach sort of dubious..."

    I don't find it sort of dubious at all. I find it fair and square. The law requires probable cause and provides for "innocence until guilt is proven".

    If those entrusted with enforcing our laws don't follow those laws themselves, not only are they not doing the jobs we as tax payers pay them for, but they are actively undermining the system they represent.

    Police sloppiness, and police corruption can often look much the same to those watching.

    The officers in charge should be disciplined. The public needs to see in real terms, that everyone, regardless of profession must follow the rules of the land.

17. iluvhatemail
    December 7th, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    for all you people feeling sorry about how the poor cops were "entrapped" and "baited" i will cry a tear for you tonight. they didnt entrap or lie to anybody. This was a completely legal operation while the law's investigation was not. They wasted their own time and i think that taxpayer money should come from their paycheck, just to be fair.

18. quinnnchick
    December 7th, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    reminds me of the root beer kegger that HS kids threw. I can't remember how many of them they breathalyzed before they finally gave up.

19. ted
    December 7th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    Yes, nobody likes it when the cops don't play by the rules, but these guys just come off as smug idiots.

    Bad thing to admit they set a trap - somebody may still charge them with something.

20. J
    December 7th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    The cops have proven both through word and through deed that they cannot and will not police themselves. So it's up to the citizens to ensure that only good and honest people to hold law enforcement to a higher standard. And I have no problem with what was done in Odessa.

21. Pol x
    December 7th, 2008 at 6:07 pm

    Anyone, and i mean anyone, who sits there and thinks these people are smug smarty pants trying to embarrass the cops...is a fool.

    When the cops ignore the law, then it is anarchy.

    NO EXCEPTIONS.

    You break the law, you go to prison, and it is the same for the cops.

    AGAIN...NO EXCEPTIONS.

    Whether it be growing dope or conducting illegal raids, there is a equal status to illegality.

    There is no get out of free jail card because you have a hat and a badge.

    If you don't agree then where is the line?

    Officer KKK shoots you for being black in a built up area? Officer Sex pervert has your kids, for being sexy towards him?

    Either the cops abide buy the rules or no one does.

    These guys shame not only their own police department but all police.

22. DOJ
    December 7th, 2008 at 6:34 pm

    Abused of power should hold dire consequences.

    I'm not understanding why the warrant wasn't given to them

23. JivesTheButler
    December 7th, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    @ Pol x:

    I find your post to be a real shame, mostly because I agree with your conclusion. However, you supporting arguments leave much to be desired.

    I am going to go out on a limb and way that when you say "NO EXCEPTIONS" you are using hyperbole in both cases. If not, well you should probably re-examine the meaning of the words "minor infraction"

    Obviously, there are some rules that cops will not have to abide by, and that they should not have to abide by. For example: the police are allowed to gain access (through the proper channels) to your private data. The police can carry guns in situations where it would otherwise be illegal. The police are allowed to lock you up in a cell and hold you there for a little while. These are all things that private citizens would be brought to court for, but the police are allowed to do as a function of their duties.

    Obviously, the police can't follow all the same rules that the rest of us do, otherwise everyone and no-one would be police. However, I am a strong supporter of the idea that they should follow the rules that have been set down for them by public officials and directly democratic legislation. The police have done something illegal here, even by the somewhat expanded definition of legality that we extend to law enforcement, therefor they need to be disciplined.

24. Ola Amigo
    December 7th, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    These guys sound smug - 'highly self-satisfied', to me.

    I'm for legalizing drugs. One of the benefits is the cops in this situation would be able work on actual crimes.

25. Peeves
    December 7th, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    Yes, please get them to focus on actual crimes and jail those who knowingly did illegal things to jail people.

    And as far as entrapment goes I don't think anyone, citizen or police officer, should be able to use it as an excuse to get out of punishment. If you want to do something illegal and you choose to do it, you've committed an illegal act. No one is forcing you to do anything, they're giving you the option to do something or not do something. This particular department should be put under a microscope. The claim of entrapment is cowardly and anyone that uses it could use a slap to the face.

26. Bryan C
    December 7th, 2008 at 7:34 pm

    Greg M - Although they can show up with hydro employees for a safety inspection you can refuse entry to the officers and only let in the hydro employees. And even if the hydro employees find a grow op, the officers still have to come back with a warrant

27. Ryan Parrish
    December 7th, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    I can only hope any charges that are brought upon anyone are brought upon the crooked cops.

28. samlive
    December 7th, 2008 at 10:58 pm

    unfortunately this sort of thing happens all the time.
    while i'm glad that it was brought to "the public's" attention, most people will see it on the news, say "hmm, thats interesting" then go about their business.
    i agree with this action wholheartedly, but my skeptical side wins when it says that nothing will come of this. no one will be fired from the police department, no one in washington will even bat an eye.
    it is so glaringly obvious that marijuanna prohibition DOES NOT WORK that the laws should have been changed years ago and yet they remain in place. I can only hope for change in the future, but remain cynical and skeptical of any real progress.

29. JamesM
    December 8th, 2008 at 12:33 am

    "# Ola Amigo
    December 7th, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    These guys sound smug - ‘highly self-satisfied’, to me.

    I’m for legalizing drugs. One of the benefits is the cops in this situation would be able work on actual crimes."

    Never gonna happen. The prison industrial complex is a hugely profitable industry. There's too much money to lose in not locking up people who do things like smoke weed.

    The US is not a country that has the most people in Jail out of trying to protect the public. Follow the money.

30. K!P
    December 8th, 2008 at 1:45 am

    now only if i could splice a "certain plant"onto a crismass tree... or geneticly alter the pinecones.

31. Evilbeagle
    December 8th, 2008 at 3:43 am

    I'm so glad someone did this. I hate when police abuse power, and this little punch in the nose should wake people up a bit more to those abuses.

32. Ola Amigo
    December 8th, 2008 at 3:56 am

    JamesM,
    "Never gonna happen. The prison industrial complex is a hugely profitable industry. There’s too much money to lose in not locking up people who do things like smoke weed."
    1. Thanks for the lecture.
    2. Never said I thought it would happen. I said I would like it to be so.
    3. Get over your smug self.

33. Dale
    December 8th, 2008 at 8:03 am

    Ok Im no expert on this, but can't you use batteries to power your grow lights, or a generator? Maybe more expensive, but no huge electrical surges...

34. hatter
    December 8th, 2008 at 10:59 am

    You can use a generator, sure. But looking at your power bill isn't illegal. It's not power spikes that tipped the cops off, but the use of infrared cameras. Which I didn't even realize were illegal...

35. Chojiro
    December 8th, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    This has all the guile and latent hilariousness of 'To Catch a Predator', without the unpleasant side effect of pissing me off.

36. Scooter
    December 8th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    Kinda reminds me of the story of the kid picked up carrying a bag filled with parsley who said he was going to trick a friend in to thinking it was pot to see him smoke it. Turns out carrying a substance that you are going to pretend are real drugs is Illegal.. better keep your mints in proper tins or the cops might "think" it is Drugs.

37. Burp on Dumb Cops
    December 8th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    HAHAHHA serves them right! They should be out busting meth labs instead of harassing harmless growers.

38. Publius
    December 9th, 2008 at 6:12 am

    The simple fact of the matter is this: Grow lamp are not illegal and have legitimate uses. How about growing orchids in winter?

    If you can legally go to a store and buy something, and use it in it's intended legal manner, then there is no crime. It's only baiting the cops if the cops are using illegal tactics to location growers.

    The only thing that separate the cops from the criminal are the rules. Cops follow then, criminals do not. When cops break the rules, they become the criminals. It's that simple.

39. Bill
    December 9th, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    LED growlights - low power, low heat.

40. Horned_one20
    December 9th, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    This sorta happened to a good friend of mine. He had his door kicked in by SWAT looking for a Meth lab. Turns out the guy he had install his water heater noticed a bathroom in his house with "tubes and a weird smell". Sounds bad until you realize that he has about 10 reef tanks in his house and uses that bathroom for chemical storage and mixing for them. Here's a link to the news story:

    http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=509182

    This is very scary indeed!

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