Last month, Pamela Root and her son Adam got kicked off a Southwest flight when the 2-year-old toddler got unruly during a pre-flight safety instruction. Later, Southwest apologizes and gave her vouchers for her inconvenience (though not for the decision to yank her off the flight).
Amy Alkon of Advice Goddess Columns disagrees with Southwest's apology. She wrote this op-ed at the Los Angeles Times on how parents with unruly kids are "stealing from the rest of us":
There is a notion, reflected in numerous blog comments about the incident, that other passengers should "just deal" and "give a kid a break." This notion is wrong. Parents like Root and others who selfishly force the rest of us to pay the cost of their choices in life aren't just bothering us; they're stealing from us. Most people don't see it this way, because what they're stealing isn't a thing we can grab on to, like a wallet. They're stealing our attention, our time and our peace of mind.
More and more, we're all victims of these many small muggings every day. Our perp doesn't wear a ski mask or carry a gun; he wears Dockers and shouts into his iPhone in the line behind us at Starbucks, streaming his dull life into our brains, never considering for a moment whether our attention belongs to him. These little acts of social thuggery are inconsequential in and of themselves, but they add up -- wearing away at our patience and good nature and making our daily lives feel like one big wrestling smackdown. [...]
I know, I know -- because I am not a parent I cannot possibly understand how hard it is to keep a child from acting out. Actually, that probably has more to do with the way I was raised -- by parents I describe as loving fascists. As a child, I was convinced that I could flap my arms and fly, but the idea that I could ever be loud in a public place that wasn't a playground simply did not exist for me.
I hear claims that some children are prone to tantrums no matter how exquisitely they are parented. If this describes your child, there's a solution, and it isn't plopping him in a crowded metal tube with hundreds of people who can't escape his screams except by throwing themselves to their deaths at 30,000 feet.
What do you think? Was Amy right? Link
(Photo: Karen T. Borchers / Mercury News)
AS for the brats that infest our lives, I never hesitate to confront the parents, or complain to the manager (or whoever is supposedly in charge). Hand out vouchers to some miserable loser of a parent? No way! Give vouchers to the rest of us for the abuse we suffered.
Kids 2 and under are going to do what they are going to do. Anyone who says otherwise has no experience parenting.
The fact is, no mother wants their child to yell on an airplane. No really, we don't! Shocking, I know. In fact, I had to fly with a child across the Atlantic, and at the conclusion of the trip I realized something: Forced airline travel with small children should be on the list of acceptable interrogation treatments given to terrorists. After 15 hours of little Bobby screaming in their ears, they'll willingly give up the location of the Rebel Base!
That's curious - anyone who doesn't complain is venal and pathetic?
Maybe they just don't get bothered as easily as you do.
However I don't ever recall airlines claiming their flights will be free of annoying children or other annoyances. If you don't want to be annoyed you probably shouldn't consider air travel.
Having said that, airlines always have the option of throwing passengers off the plane for any reason (aside from race, creed, etc). They have every right to this woman and her child from the plane for being disruptive. The airline does not guarantee everyone the right to fly.
Maybe it would be wonderful if everyone minded their own business, but I think it's healthy to occasionally have to deal with other people - even the nutty, annoying, or weird ones. :) I think it was unreasonable to put the mother and child off the plane, even after having ridden on a plane for nearly 5 hours with a massive upper respiratory infection and a small child kicking my seat. Children are going to be annoying ... Especially if they're scared or their ears hurt b/c of air pressure changes. I know I -wish- I could scream and cry like that sometimes!
I kinda hope the author of that article someday has to take a small child on an air plane. I've met very few who didn't fuss even a little. It's not like she's going to be able to say, "Oh, well. I can't make that emergency flight to my relative's bedside today. Maybe next week!"
Silly writer.
It's not stealing, it's a drag. You're in a public space and you're going to have to put up with some inconveniences. I carried my children out of restaurants and other places when they don't behave: If I have paid a few hundred bucks for a plane ticket - and I need to get home - that is not an option.
Two and three-year old children sometimes freak out when they don't get their way or when they are tired.
I used to give people dirty looks and I would think to myself "control your child." Then I had kids who would throw (not often) tantrums.
Kids act like that because they are trying to get something - attention or something more specific.
One of the ways of stopping the tantrum is by giving them what they want, which reinforces the behaviour which means it will happen more often.
Ignoring the tantrum means it will stop and reduces the chance of it happening again.
Part of the problem is that people are too afraid to actually discipline their children. With threats of child services being called in, no one will even slap their kid's hand in public. That is absolutely ridiculous. Sometimes, a child needs a little bit of a slap or a spank so they know not to do something again.
People also need to give their children attention. I've seen plenty of parents talking on the phone while their child is having a tantrum and all that kid wants is a little attention. Parents don't seem to have an interest in their children's lives as much as they used to. When my parents were little, their families would sit down every night for dinner. I haven't sat with my family since I was probably 9 years old.
I think that for the first few years after a couple has children, they shouldn't be allowed to have any extra money. Why? Because kids whose parents are on welfare are usually well behaved. They know that they can't have whatever they want just because they act up in a store. Or maybe people should just learn to say no to their kids.
I see way too many children with no concept of manners. My kids have manners. They don't always use them perfectly, but typically all it takes is a stern look from a parent and suddenly "Yes Ma'am" and Please/Thank you aren't a foreign language. Children can certainly be taught to be considerate, and they should. It leads to more confidence on their part, and others will enjoy their presence rather than merely tolerating them.
Having raised these kids, I have also dealt with some 2 year old tantrums. I guarantee you no matter how awesome your parenting skills, when that child is tired, stressed, and in a very unfamiliar and uncomfortable place such as... an airplane, they can and will freak out at any moment. When that happens, you do your best and hope the other passengers are more understanding and sympathetic than Ms. Alkon.
So yes, parents teach your kids manners. Those who aren't parents, try using your own manners and showing a bit of compassion to a child in a difficult situation. It's called "adulthood" and it sometimes involves looking past your own convenience and comfort, and realizing the world isn't actually revolving around yourself.
I would be willing to pay extra for Child-free MOVIES
I would be willing to pay extra for Child-free hours of operation in restaraunts
I would be willing to pay extra for a house in a Child-free neighborhood.
PLEASE somebody offer it!!!!
So you can't keep your damn legs shut, why is that my fault? I don't want to deal with your disgusting, obnoxious spawn that would have been left in the woods tied to a tree for wolf bait in ancient times.
Anyway, here's my solution - Give your kid a sip of preflight nyquil, problem solved :D
You think enough people would pay to support a "no children" anything? and that business won't
A. lose money
B. get sued?
get real twits
But we brought crayons and coloring book, a leapster, books to read, card games, small board games, trip games, etc, etc. We got prepared and we played with them. (check this out btw : http://www.momsminivan.com/index.html)
Last week-end I was in a high speed train with people going to Euro-Disney. They did not bring anything for their 2 daughters. Result? 2 1/2 hours of pure hell...
Long story short sometimes you HAVE to travel on a plane with a small child. The nasty looks and little snide comments we got really didn't help. It was a horrible experience for us and the unsympathetic passengers really don't help.
By the way he did amazing on the way back. Not a peep.
I can't really say what is more annoying: A crying baby or a bunch of businessmen telling dirty jokes over two hours after having had a good sip of whiskey above ground. Latter at least could control themselves. You would think.
First, taking a kid that will cry during a drama is just stupid. Control your kid or get the eff out.
As for my friends. One of my friends has a great story that concerns flying over oceans, and includes half an hour of tolerance, than then the story ends with "hit him."
My friend is right. Children who get hit for crying will still cry, but instead they will whimper, instead of bawl. Once they stop bawling, THEN you hug them, until them, you tug the bit.
I'd be a baby hitting mofaku as a father. You don't have to hit them hard, or even hit them hard enough for it even to be called a hit, just let them know that they are doing wrong.
Really, why should other people have to suffer for your poor parenting skills?
I like the idea of having something to occupy your children's time, so they're not bored to death on a plane. Or just give em drugs.
The truth of the matter is that if you CHOOSE to have children you need to keep them reasonably in control or at least you need to be seen to be making an effort to control them. That is the distinction, if you don't try it makes people think you are willing to rob them of their time/happiness/life. And that is what makes the world an uglier place.
If you CHOOSE to own a dog you need to teach it not to jump on people or scold it when it does.
It's all the same..... it really is because no one cares that you have a kid. Good for you.
Translation: I'm not going to address the actual point of contention but instead I'm going to insult you in hopes of derailing your argument.
When I was six years old (maybe even earlier?) I went on a transatlantic flight from New York to Pakistan, (with a stop in Manchester, I think). I can assure you, it was not fun to have my ears pop. I did not enjoy any of the food (all I ate was carrot strips and some bread, which my little brother compared to plastic). I couldn't hear anything on the television screen, even after plugging in the headphones. It was Sesame Street, and I couldn't hear what they were saying! I was NOT happy. Even worse, it kept repeating THE SAME episode. I was so mad. (Fortunately, it was working on the return flight, and it was amusing to see that it was in all in Urdu, which, even more fortunately, I could actually understand.)
Anyway, the point is, regardless of how excited I was to be on a plane, I wasn't having a lot of fun. (To be honest, I'm not sure if anyone was, or is even supposed to.) My mom is a no-nonsense kind of lady, so I knew not to throw a tantrum. I knew that she would not be afraid to scold me in public. There were consequences for misbehaving, which were demonstrated when my brother ran ahead of us at the airport. So, if my mother didn't teach me how to behave and be polite, we probably would've pretty much ruined everyone else's flight experience (which was already not very pleasant due to the flight service). My mother taught me that I was responsible for everything I did. I would be responsible for apologizing if I spilled someone's coffee, or if I woke someone else up. That's the way it's supposed to be.
First, taking a kid that will cry during a drama is just stupid. Control your kid or get the eff out. ..."
Douglas, could not agree more. I'm so tired of parents who kiss the butts of their children and then expect me to do the same. They become terrorists. I'm not allowed to defend myself against the hellions without being accused of being a child abuser.
I swear to all things unholy and revered, the next time I get accosted by a toddling Petri-dish in a onesy with an indifferent, arrogant parent, my soda will accidentally on purpose explode all over the beast.
Having said that, I notice a lot of parents who give their children attention when they're being bad, but ignore their kids when they're being good. A basic rule of learning is: Any behavior that is followed by a desired consequence will increase in frequency. Pay attention to them when they're good. That's all. Easy. I once kept a toddler (not my own) from fussing on a Boston-SFO flight. First we got friendly by eye contact and smiling. Whenever he was quiet and he looked at me he got a big smile and approval and PeekaBoos. When he started to fuss, I frowned and turned away. We didn't hear a peep out of him (except for giggles) for most of the flight.
Now I train all sorts of animals and I find this sort of thing entertaining. I don't expect other people to while away their hours teaching strange children good manners, but I do expect parents to do their homework. The kid wasn't a surprise, you had 9 months to read up on the subject. I don't agree that people who don't have children are self-centered. The real self-centered people are those who don't teach their children manners. Even if you don't care for the rest of us, that kid will be handicapped when he grows up and is expected to behave like a human. Force isn't necessary, in fact it's a hindrance to the learning process. Try reading Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor for starters.
Entitled whiners. The world does not revolve around you. I blame a culture that gives trophies to all the little leaguers instead of making people work for a reward. Jeebus - grow a skin.
*ssholes annoy the crap outta me too - it's part of life and no one said it was "fair."
For those arguing "well, no one wants to be the parent of a screaming child in an airplane!".. no duh! But just "not wanting" something does not remove guilt and is not a proper excuse. I "didn't want" to fail my college Chemistry 101 exam, but I did anyway -because I didn't study hard enough-! I accept this now. It's time you did too.
The way your child acts is more often than not a reflection of your parentining skills. I was also raised by "loving facist" parents... I grew up with my head in the clouds, but pitching a tantrum in public was simply unthinkable.