The Real Tomb of Jesus?

Until someone invents a time machine (or until we are all granted with omnipotence in the afterlife), there's no way that someone could definitively prove that Jesus was buried in a casket (or that he ascended to heaven for that matter).

Had the leaders of the time seen that Jesus' body could not be located, it would have been in their best interest to create a fake casket for him. What better way to prevent faithful followers from converting? Plus, how many unemployed "Fishers of Men" are buried in a nice tomb with their entire (poor) family?

What's unfortunate is that there is so little evidence outside the bible (archaeological or written) that Jesus even existed. Information was so easy to create, manipulate, and destroy that it's often difficult to separate fact from fiction.

In the end, no matter what supposed proof someone offers, it comes down to belief ... unless you have a time machine handy, in which case ... sign me up! ;)

I choose to believe in his existence, but that's a debate for another time.

Whatever your beliefs, a little delving into Biblical Jewish Culture will show that this story holds no water. Very few people were buried in sarcophagi in Jesus' day. That was something reserved for the very rich, and neither Jesus' family nor his disciples would have been able to afford such an extravagance. (For that matter, Jesus himself wouldn't have stood for such an unnecessary expense either...) The poor to average person was usually embalmed in various preservative oils and herbs, wrapped in linen and usually placed in a small excavation or cave. The destitute or leprous were just burned or dumped into a shallow grave in the town's potter's field.

Not to mention the actual Biblical account itself, which gives absolutely no mention of stone caskets involved in Jesus' burial.

--TwoDragons

This inscription was proven a forgery. If you need empirical proof that God (Jesus) exists, there is much of it, if you look a little further. One example:
"The Incorruptibles". Search for it at Amazon.
I suspect that no amount of objective evidence will suit you, judging by the tone of your comment.
This, however, is the "time machine" that you mentioned.

Jesus appeared to his followers after he died. Before that, He raised the dead, caused the blind to see and the deaf to hear. He cured the lame, and He did these and other things before witnesses who testified to his divinity.

Ask God after you have done your best to purify your heart, and He will prove His own existence to you.
See for yourself if this is not true. If you hope for your continued existence after death, hope is a good start for this. Cynicism will get you nothing. God does not need to prove Himself to you. It works the other way around.

even if he did exist (unlikely) - he would definitely have been nothing more than human

Is James Cameron sinking into Geraldo Rivera realm?

Shep, thanks for bringing the issue of the authenticity the inscription on the James Ossuary. Reading the wiki article, it seems that everyone agreed that the ossuary is real but the inscription might have been added in recent times (some experts still refuse to certify it as a fake because no independent panel of experts ever got to examine it in person).

Not to split hairs, but the Hebrew inscription looks like it says "Yaakov" (with an unusual spelling at that) which would be more commonly translated as Jacob rather than James.

Isn't the real question if the grave is empty or not?

If it is, then all christians who earlier said that it was a fake would immediately claim it to be real, and any atheists who previously claimed the grave to be real would turn around and call it a fake.

It is of course pointless to try and find a real grave that conveniently has "here lies..." with all the facts corresponding to the bible. Because the bible is a work of fiction, possibly based on real characters and events. Possibly and to some degree.

Those who have faith aren't interested in facts. Because they think they know it all if they have read that one book. If their messiah returned they would kill him within hours for claiming something so blasphemous.

And those (like me) who are atheists really think that it is a huge waste of scientific resources to chase fairytales. Spending money on the science of the bible is like building a huge telescope to locate the Death Star.

Hey, don't knock the Hubble.
We'll find that Death Star, yet.

I'm not going to bother touching upon the unscholarly non-tangential opinions expressed by the nonbelievers, I've got better things to do with my time anyways and I doubt it would change their minds...

People have been trying since shortly after he had been killed to put some tangible marker upon the site of his death / resurrection / etc. Some people have even resorted to the blasphemy of fakery, in the selfish interest of staking some sort of imagined claim upon what they seem to think is "sacred ground." The ossuary in question is a fine example of this.

Nevertheless, the reality is that there isn't, nor SHOULD there be, a tangible spot on the earth that is "sacred ground." It shouldn't matter if Jesus was born in a manger in Bethlehem or a tenement building in Brussels, or a plantation in Biloxi. It shouldn't matter if he preached his message in Jerusalem or Jodhpur or Jersey. It shouldn't matter if he offered up his life on a torture stake, a cross, or the hood of a '56 Chevy Bel-Air.

What matters is that he DID.

I am sorry for those who feel it in their hearts to snicker at us faithful followers, or who feel that they have to justify his existence by faking evidence, or who think it's all some sort of great joke to pawn forgeries off on the devoted. They are going to have to explain their actions someday, to a power that won't take sweet-talk or excuses. Maybe not in my lifetime, maybe not in my son's lifetime, but someday eventually.

It is a day that I, as a Christian, am trying to prepare for.

--TwoDragons

What's next? Filming Jacobovici draw a picture of Muhammad for 90 minutes? Sigh...

Regarding Jesus' existence or not, secular (non-religious) Roman records of the time recorded a large-scale hunt for the missing body of Jesus. This is not fiction, and historians acknowledge this. Sorry, I can't remember if I saw this on a PBS show or the History Channel. Jesus was a real person (if you choose to believe Roman historical records).

Fake, fake, fake.

I can see it now, Jesus' last words on the cross:
"I'm the King of the Jews!".

Few words.
Josephus, Tacticus, and Pliny the Younger. 11 of the 12 "disciples" described by these non-believers died a horrible death for what they believed. I don't know of many who would die for a 'folk lore' or ellaboration of stories. While many will say that Josephus' comments about Jesus were added by Christians, many 'words' may have been added (I.E. 'Christ', 'Messiah', 'resurrection') Regardless, the rest of the paragraphs relating to Jesus is clearly authentic writings of Josephus in his style and selection of words.
One main point to not forget.
Converting to Christianity in the 1st century was not nearly as simple as it is today. To convert meant persecution, torture, house-to-house raids. Match that with the geographical writings of eyewitness Gospel accounts (the canon) all in accord, the likelihood of such a 'fictional' story coupled with ridicule, torture, loss of freedom, and death makes for compelling authenticity of a historical Jesus with many eyewitnesses.
Peace,
Laz®

Need proof?? Good luck shooting holes in what Dr. Hugh Ross has discovered. He and a team of scientists have scientifically backed up the validity of the Bible and the existence of God.
Check out the website, the books, and the reason of the day. They give you different scientific evidence every day. WWW.REASONS.ORG
If the claim is that Christians "aren't interested in facts" because we "know it all" from reading "that one book," then I'd challenge the nonbeliever to dig deeper instead of making claims that have no backing.
Many will say that you can't argue with science. Well, here's the science. WWW.REASONS.ORG

The trilemma of C.S. Lewis:

I am trying to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about [Jesus]: “I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God.” This is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic – on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg – or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse.

People want to believe that he wasn't who he and others said he was... they want to believe that they are not accountable to anyone but themselves... they want to raise themselves up and exalt themselves as intellectual Gods...

But God says he will make a fool out of the wise...

The early haters and mockers of Christ couldn't refute the truth of the eyewitnesses... they tried... Now some want to believe that they have succeeded where the early secularists failed? I don't think so... either the inscriptions are fake or they were just another family possesing those popular names...
Just last year I had Jesus in afterschool detention... perhaps I should create an entire program insinuating that Jesus wasn't really ever born until 14 years ago and now walks this earth... makes as much scietific sense as what these people are doing

Well, it's just another attempt by the atheists, to try and say there is no God. Do they ever stop to think about the vastness of this universe? Hey, they want to ban the use of God every where. Why's that? Do they really fear that there may be one, contrary to their belief? I'm not calling them a fool for not believing, just mentally malenurished. This, I do not believe is the burial of Jesus Christ and his family. They've even stated that names were common at the time and even found other graves over the years It's just another fancy Da Vinci code, only it's called a documentary.

1. Jesus was real, of course. Apart from the Roman literature one gentleman has mentionned above, there are plenty of ancient Indian (of SE Asia) texts spoke about him. That would be a stupid argument that he didn't exist.

2. Then, mixing Jesus with God would be wrong. Irrespective of whether Jesus was a great moral teacher, or the son of God as Church is advocating, the almighty God will always be there, and was there always.

3. I have found some very interesting articles and other links, can be found here > http://www.vedicearth.com/veda-christian.php for those who are interested.

Just a couple of notes for post 19 up there:

Hey Rick,
When was the last time an Atheist came down your driveway with a bunch of literature, rang your doorbell, and asked to sit in your living room so they may introduce you to the kingdom of Atheism for 2 hours?

I thought not.

That being said, it's not exactly like Atheists have a loud voice anywhere in the world. I don't see where you feel threatened by Atheists. Are they assaulting you everyday on television with mind-numbing rhetoric laced with hate for anyone with alternative lifestyles or conflicting beliefs?

I thought not.

Don't refer or defer an argument onto those who did not create it. You can blame James Cameron if you'd like but you should actually look into whether or not he is an Atheist before you assume so. By the way, James Cameron is a Protestant;)

You also asked if Atheists "ever stop to think about the vastness of this universe?". Uh, yes. Generally they are called scientists and astronomers, though I don't mean to generalize. It was these same people that were persecuted and burned at the stake for daring to question the Church and its belief in geocentrism. I don't know of any clergyman who ever built a massive space telescope that could examine the depths of our universe. Atheists look for answers beyond the oversimplified explanations that the church could or can devise. It's just knowledge. Get over it.

Yes, the names in the tomb were common to that period. I wonder how many Jesus son of Josephs there were. The answer is two according to the Israeli Antiquities Authority. Also, the odds of A Jesus Son of Joseph, MAry, Mary, and a son of Jesus… 600:1 in favor of the proponants of this discovery.

By the way again, The Davinci Code was a rip off of "Holy Blood , Holy Grail" only DaVinci plays no part in it. If you have an ounce of ability for critical thought you might want to have a read.

Good luck kid.

John, son of Pee Wee Herman,
I'll give you this, 600:1 is an impressive number in favor of the proponants of this discovery. However, that number doesn't even compare to the number displayed below. This is an excerpt from an article written by Dr. Hugh Ross.

"Unique among all books ever written, the Bible accurately foretells specific events-in detail-many years, sometimes centuries, before they occur. Approximately 2500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter—no errors. (The remaining 500 or so reach into the future and may be seen unfolding as days go by.) Since the probability for any one of these prophecies having been fulfilled by chance averages less than one in ten (figured very conservatively) and since the prophecies are for the most part independent of one another, the odds for all these prophecies having been fulfilled by chance without error is less than one in 10 to the 2000th power (that is 1 with 2000 zeros written after it)!"

Logstaff said...
I was seeing the moovie recently. I am surprised that the investigators clearly mentionned at the beginning of the moovie that the archeologist found the stone boxes with the bones inside. Also some skulls are standing arround in the corners of the cave. An archeologist has seen all these skeletons and apparently made an inventory of each of it. Here is an unanswered question... Who was that archeologist.. where is that report about the skeletons, and probably where are the drawings or photographs. I would expect that it would have been a routine job at least to analyze the remains in order to find out the age of the person??? Than the comment is done that because of the religious tradition of the jews a reburial was done. Now another question is obvious: I guess that such a reburial is not just done anywhere without inventory... so why is that entire moovie going arround the main trace? I was expecting that a team of investigators ready to scretch the bottom of the stone boxes in order to recover a couple bone chips for DNA analyze (which is a good way to trace all kind of info, for sure)... why such a team of "scientists" is not able to check at least the age of that individual by getting hold of the reburial place.. or to start with of the archeologist file describing the content of the stone box. That is why I felt strange about that theory.. all was tried out to malke the story look probable.. and than the most obvious control wasnt done...
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Also the reburried bones can be now 100% identified, since the DNA must be identical to the DNA already taken out of the stone box with the Jesus Name written on it.
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It would be of cause very interesting to check these bones in order to see if they could have been of a man aged like the Christian Jesus. Than it would be even better to discover the damages done to the bones on legs and hands, ribbs.. whatever.
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But here we expect too much.... Since probably the people who made all this reportage.. already saw the archeologist file.. which they hide in the moovie... that probably.. the bones found in that box.. did not fit the profile of the Christian Jesus... who knows.. maybe they found a guy 60 years old without his teeth.. than the entire story is ridiculous...
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Any Comments welcome!

See the real tomb of Jesus Christ here:
http://www.holyfire.org/eng/