Family Locked in Restaurant for Refusing to Pay Tip

Servers cannot corotnl: how quickly your order comes, This one is only true IF: your server truly put in the order completely correctly and they brought it out as quickly as they could correctly as they could notice without touching the food. Now, if it's another server, then if the order was put in correctly by the original server that took the order, then the other server has to serve the food without any obvious errors such as a wrong side dish, missing side of ranch, etc., anything that the person bringing it out would not have to TOUCH to notice the mistake, because that server has a ticket to verify the food with. The original server has their written order to verify the food with automatically if the original server delivers the food.1. WHEN do you put in my order? Do you wait or do you go put it in immediately after taking it? If you are double sat or triple sat, you can still go put in each order into the computer after taking each table's order. By not doing that can result in a much longer wait and that would be YOUR FAULT. 2. FORGETTING to put in an order. My husband and I have experienced this for REAL that servers ADMITTED to our faces they have FORGOTTEN TO PUT ORDERS IN. All of them were appetizers, bar drinks, and a cup of soup. 3. Did you put in the order CORRECTLY into the computer? Have had many times servers ADMITTED to our faces they did not do that correctly. Have had wrong entre9es before due to our server putting in the order wrong. Have had wrong bar drinks too due to the server putting in the order wrong.4. Did you FORGET ANYTHING I ORDERED such as a SIDE DISH? We have had this happen a number of times as well.5. Did you DROP anything I ordered? Luckily, we have not had this happen, but I have seen a server once drop some fries from a plate before and I did have a waiter spill some margarita martini when pouring into a martini glass. In other words, it is possible, not likely, but very possible.6. Did you remember to GET my food? We have had a server do that before. Also, we have had a number of servers forget bar drinks. 7. Did you bring out my food obviously correctly if you bring my food out? Do you realize how many times OUR OWN SERVER brings out DUH mistakes like the side dish is wrong, the entre9e is wrong, something obvious is not correct bacon that isn't covered up isn't extra, extra crispy when you can clearly notice that it isn't without touching anything, etc.? Every DUH mistake you bring out is YOUR FAULT I am waiting for what I did order by you wasting my time bringing me the wrong item or wrongly prepared item or forgot something. While we all make mistakes, I would have to say a good 90% of the time, servers NEVER COMPARE THE WRITTEN ORDERS TO THE FOOD, because they are TOO LAZY and DON'T CARE!!If it's another server, it still doesn't make it the kitchen staff's fault I have the wrong side dish for example since that is something that's obvious. It's either my server that didn't put in my order correctly or this other server that didn't compare the ticket to the food or that this other server did compare the ticket to the food, but just missed it(HIGHLY UNLIKELY, but possible).So QUIT LYING to the public, because what you are saying isn't true MOST of the time. MOST of the time, your server had SOMETHING to do with HOW LONG YOU waited for your food or bar drinks. I didn't say always, but most of the time, your server is WHY you are waiting longer in general. That is the truth, you can't argue with facts. I KNOW, WE EXPERIENCED IT!! My husband and I have been going out to eat just about almost every weekend(2-3 times a weekend) since Nov. 2000 since we met, so we know more than you do!!

I wouldnt get all bent out of shape here. The mood thing- I usually go out in a good mood, crappy service does upset me and dampen that good mood. The issue isnt about how much tip percent blah blah blah. It is about the customer was treated like crap then forced to pay for it. People will tend to be more civil when not forced to do things. Forcing me to pay an amount after a bad experiance would make me livid. I would have just snapped, broken a window, claimed PTSD, and walked out. That's just me. No one is hurt (other than feelings), I look like a bad ass, and then I dont even sue them for imprisoning me and my family. Did I mention I pay for the food? Ya, I do that too.

@ Unknown2004 - Not tipping doesn't mean that they are skipping out on the bill. Does a doctor receive tips after he prescribes you medicine? Like FFR was right, get a job where your pay isn't based on the customer's mood.

You people fighting tipping need to go work in a restaurant for a week. You not tipping means the waiter is paying for your rude ass to come sit in there and eat. 95% of servers dont even see a pay check EVER!! All these comments defending you not tipping is flipping ignorant its ridiculous. As soon as you read any comment on here you can pick out the people that are snotty and think they are better than tipping because they have such an amazing education. FUCK off!! I dont know whats worse you snotty people or the ghetto and trashy people that cant afford to even go out to eat try to get shit free. You people are pathetic!!

The gratuity/tip dispute was a civil matter. The moment they they locked the door made it a criminal matter. Sounds like Abduction to me, restricting ones movement. I wonder what if the Police Dept said anything about that.

"You may be charged with unlawful confinement if you intentionally confine or restrict someone’s movements for a significant period of time without consent or the authority to do so. If you move a confined person to another place against their will, you may also be charged with kidnapping."

http://www.sternandalbert.com/Page.aspx?ContentID=223

@Petra A citizens arrest is basically telling someone to wait patiantly until the authorities come to deal with the situation. What that resturaunt did was hold people against their will; which is kidnapping.

Francesca, you seem to have a lot of nasty things to say about people you've never met. I wonder if you treat your customers the same way you treat people over the internet. The same people who hide behind the anonymity of the internet are the same people who go back to the kitchen and tamper with food.

You strike me as a rather passive-aggressive person, and I'm seriously doubting your statements that you don't spit in food.

Anyway... When I get good service, I generally tip WAY more than the standard 15%. But when the service is sub-standard (and it rarely is) I tip less than 15%. What really bothers me is people who DEMAND more than 15% or say things like "15% is a MINIMUM."

You may want to go back and re-read what I've said in the comments here. All I'm saying is that 15% should be sufficient if the service is sufficient, and if someone thinks that's bad pay, they should find another job. I even broke it down as to why that 15% works out to more pay than most people get per hour at jobs that require a similar level of education.

I also said that if someone doesn't like a job where their pay is contingent on people's mood, they should find another job. That's pretty much it.

I don't know why you think you need to complain about people like me, or why you attack me personally.

You are obviously very passionate about this subject. But I think some of the passion may be misdirected. Rather than defend your fellow wait staff, you are basically throwing insults around at customers, while ratting out your coworkers for spitting in food.

If you really wanted to make your industry look good, you wouldn't present the spit-in-the-food thing like it's so common, and you wouldn't personally attack people when they disagree with you.

In Many states what this restaurant in the story did is called kidnapping. They need to call it a service fee because gratuity by definition means a gift or something given without obligation.
I tip and hope the places I eat at are like the one I worked at, that pooled tips and shared it with the cooks and dishwashers.
Also if you live in California or Oregon( Portland at least) and you do not get paid minimum wage, you need to report that place asap.

FRR - I don't remember complaining about my job OR pay. Read again, I complained about people LIKE YOU. Also, I never have and never will ever spit or do anything to people's food-but I know people who have. My life does not suck, and I choose to keep a second job for the sheer fact that it's good extra money-an excellent way to pay off student loans. The pay isn't bad, it's the stigma that goes along with it, the self entitled high and mighty opinions of people such as yourself that overlooks general regard for another's feelings. I can imagine you've had plenty of chicken spit-atore in your life sir. Good day and happy dining.

I have to tip, good service or not. Because restaurants don't pay servers minimum wage. Even expensive restaurants can pay a server $2.10 an hour. If I can't afford a tip, I don't go to the restaurant.

Yes, everybody should work as a waiter for 6 months so they too can spit phlegm into people's food because their life sucks. I've had lots of jobs where I was underpaid and got yelled at. Requiring people to work as a waiter? Laughable. Some of us skip the food service and go straight to a job where the pay doesn't depend on someone else's mood.

You complain about the conditions and pay, and yet you've worked waiting tables since you were 17. So which is it? If the pay is that bad, why do you still do it?

As a non-American, the whole tipping thing floors me. Tips are altogether optional in Australia, and it's not unusual to pay no tip at all. Our serving staff don't earn a high salary, but neither are they dependent on tips. I was only in the USA for a week but I had to call friends there every time I ate anywhere to find out what I was supposed to tip!

BTW - the restaurant manager made a citizen's arrest, as the family was refusing to pay outright. Sounds fair to me - if you see someone stealing from your store, you do what you can to stop them.

Besides my normal 9-5, I have also held a second job waitressing since I was 17 years old. People that think 15% is good need to work at LEAST 6 mos. in the service industry! "YOU PEOPLE" are ignorant!

That 15% tip you think is so great turns into 9.5% tip (or less in some restaurants) after I have to MANDATORY tip out the busser, hostess, and food runner, based on my own food sales (not tips). And I work in a dry town! Even less of that tip will end up in your servers pocket if there's a bar! Also, another interesting piece of info is if you pay with a CC, the SERVER, not the restaurant, has to pay the processing fee. Sure it's minimal, but $2-4 dollars on average a shift can turn into hundreds over the course of a year.

It is a PRIVILEGE to be able to afford going out to eat! If you want to gawk at 17% gratuity, than maybe you should also question your overpriced entree. It's most likely 300-400% higher than if you bought and made it yourself. Consider others... I find this an interesting follow-up to an article ran on this site a couple weeks ago, one of which I did not comment on.

The stigma on people in the service industry is that we are less than, and can be ordered and belittled around without regard to feelings. And that our job is easy. I've had people actually say "how hard is your job"? "can you do something about this wind?" All of it is laughable - and I don't condone/practice it, but your server might just add a spitwad or worse to your chicken marsala. SO ENJOY.

Automatic should not be illegal, but it should be just marked up on the menu.

@Roycommi>> cynic much? I know gun owners who wouldn't shoot in that situation.

Maybe next time they'll get better service...:)

its a good thing that family didn't have a gun, or pull a "self defense" type thing. I can see a situation where someone says "they tried to kidnap/unlawfully detain me so naturally I had to pull my gun and kill them all, in self defense."

Not paying your bill in my state is considered "theft of services" and you can go to jail. The party in question refused to pay their lawful bill.

It's very simple.

A tip or gratuity is a voluntary payment. A compulsory charge cannot, therefore, be a tip or gratuity. What was on this bill was a service charge. If it's clearly marked as a service charge then fair enough, but if it is marked as a tip or gratuity then it can't be enforced.

I will not eat anywhere that makes a compulsory service charge, but I do tip and heavily when I feel it is deserved. One thing I do make sure of is that I don't pay tips on my credit card. I pay cash and direct to the staff. If you are paying it on your card with your bill you have no guarantee that the staff will see a penny of it. Having worked in restaurants I know plenty of owners either don't pass on such tips or when they do it's on the principal of "one for you two and two for me too".

@14
tax-dodge...

that's part of why the mandatory thing exists. the irs looks at the average tickets and such for a server and calculates an expected percentage so when you don't tip you actually cost them money, not just withhold it from them.

I would also challenge their legal right to lock me in a restaurant against my will. Holding someone hostage = not O.K. A situation similar to this happened to someone I know when her credit card was declined in a cab. Unaware that her credit card wouldn’t work, this person was driven to jail by the cab driver. He could have called the police without her there and had her held accountable.(he had her info from the card she offered in an effort to pay.)Scares me to think that if someone’s plastic doesn’t work in a cab they will be taken to jail by a stranger and charged with a crime, instead of being given a period of time in which to pay the balance plus a penalty fee or something. Going to extremes by holding people against their will, taking the law into your own hands, etc, seems pretty reckless. Better to get their information, let them leave without paying, and inform them that you will be reporting their info to the police.

On a side note, along with FORREALLYREAL's statement, I know servers that make a KILLING compared to myself. Some I've known take home over $400/night! Then again, they are ACTUALLY GOOD AT THEIR JOB, so the whole situation might be avoided that way...

15% is in fact a "good tip" at most restaurants I go to. My wife and I spend about $40 on a meal, and we are in the restaurant for less than an hour. Assume the same waiter has a total of 4 tables to deal with at any one time. I've now paid the waiter $6 for less than an hour's work. If each of the 4 tables does the same, the waiter is getting $24/hour. I know the argument that they have to share with the bartender, busboy, hostess, etc. So suppose they give half their tips to them. He's still pulling in $12/hour for a job that requires virtually zero education.

I know a lot of waiters deal with a LOT more tables than that, and the average check is well more than the $40 in my example. So waiters who claim to be underpaid can cry me a river. You don't like the pay, get another job.

As for the argument that the server is bringing me a meal I didn't have to prepare... I'm already paying for the meal when I pay the check. I'm not going to pay the waiter more money because I don't have to cook the meal. I'm paying the waiter to bring the meal from the kitchen to my table. It's kind of like saying "hey, I'll give you three bucks to walk over there and tell the kitchen I want a burger. And I'll give you another three bucks to carry it the 17 steps from the kitchen to the table."

It's pretty simple guys. Look at the definition from Webster's:

Definition of GRATUITY

: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service; especially : tip

You can't call it a "gratuity" if it's mandatory.

Oh God! Not again...

I love stories like this. If you can't be bothered to make food for yourself, then have the decency to understand what you're paying for when you walk into a restaurant.

People who gripe about the nuances of tipping in the US (and no, 15% is not a "good" tip) might be better off not expecting others to prepare and serve food for them. Even a bad server is, by definition, bringing you a meal and drinks you didn't have to prepare yourself.

Once got such terrible service with a large party and a mandatory "tip" that everyone just put down cash for the bill, minus gratuity, and left.

I think the customers should sue for unlawful imprisonment. A gratuity is assessed, but has no legal force. The restaurant can sue the customer for it later, if they so choose, but to hold them captive sounds highly illegal.

Just putting up a notice does not a contract make.

And I just typed "it's". Ack!

Too right, Kalel.
Although it's basis is the idea of the service fee, and can a restaurant in good conscience enforce it?

I tip 20 percent (less if the service was bad), but I would like to abolish all tipping. Pay the workers what they are worth, and end the tax dodging. A mandatory tip is a service charge, and they should have paid it, but the restaurant should not have locked them in.

Interesting how the focus here seems to be on the tip. I'm more interested in the family being detained. It seems to me that that is the real issue here.

Mandatory "gratuities" should be illegal. I normally tip very well for very good service. The amount of the tip decreases with the quality of service. This is how a server knows whether they are doing well or not. It's like immediate feedback. I've already blacklisted two restaurants where the service fee is abused. When it is just me and my wife we get excellent service but every time we have been there with a large party, the quality of service suffered dramatically because the server knew they were getting a good tip regardless. I worked my way through college in the service industry but that was before the service fee era we are in now. That also means I know better than to complain in a restaurant before the last plate is served. I don't like eating other people's bodily fluids.

Sounds to me like the customers just didn't want to pay the bill...

Whether you are pro- or anti-tipping, the key words here are "the gratuity policy was clearly marked on the restaurant's menus", so the customers don't appear to have much of a case. However I'd like to see the wording on the menu to get the full picture.

#4 got it exactly right. If it's a "gratuity" it's optional. It it's a "service fee" then it's not.

Either way, I wonder if the 17% they got is worth all of the bad publicity. I know if I heard a story like this about a local restaurant I would not only not go there but would spread the word about their (lack of) customer service.

I agree with iron-hands. Restaurants can't make something a law just by printing it on their menu. If I were in that party, I would consider calling the police and pressing charges for being held against my will.

it should be mandatory that every citizen should work service for at least 6 months to a year. none of this would be a question.

it's not a gratuity if it's required; it's a service fee

Having waited tables for years at a couple of different restaurants years ago, I worked at places that had automatic gratuities and ones that didn't. I didn't apply the gratuity to parties that were likely to be good tippers. Families, adults, business dinners, etc. I would seldom ever add the gratuity. I fared better just providing them my usual good service and letting them know that I did not add the gratuity for big parties already and relying on them to tip as they saw fit. They seldom ever tipped badly and often tipped more than the automatic gratuity would have been. I did appreciate the restaurants that offered the automatic gratuity option,though, for some groups. Because a server still has to pay taxes and tip out bartenders, busers, etc. based on a percentage of the whole bill regardless of what tip they received, it's nice to have that insurance for groups that are likely to stiff you entirely or leave you way too little to cover you tax and tip out expenses. Big groups of teenagers were one of the main times I had to thank my lucky stars that I had a gratuity to fall back on. They'll all too often run a server to death and take up their whole section for the whole evening and not leave any tip or leave a few cents in change on a several hundred dollar tab.

I always tip. Even with bad service. However, I hate having a tip automatically added for large tables. I get why it's done, but still feel like it is making me do it.

Yes, but 5 people is not a large party. And if the complain you better be prepared to wave it to keep the customer happy.

If they had a legitimate problem with the level of service they were receiving, they should have talked to the manager long before the check arrived. Waiting till time to pay sounds to me a lot like the scammers who wait until after they've already eaten their meal to say that the steak was overcooked and they'd like a comp.