"Spare the rod, spoil the child" as the Bible tells us, but does spanking really work as a discipline method? A new study suggests that kids who were spanked were more likely to become aggressive:
The research, involving almost 2,500 moms, accounted for all sort of factors that might affect kids' behavior, including how aggressive they were to start with.
Researchers asked moms how often they spanked their 3-year-olds and also a bunch of questions about the kids' behavior. Two years later, the researchers checked back to see how the children were.
Even after factoring in all sorts of parenting risks, including drug use and neglect, the researchers found that kids who were spanked more frequently had a much greater chance of acting out aggressively two years later.
Always consider culture.
BUT in all seriousness, Jessss... since when is 'white' a culture?
I was told I'd probably change my mind about corporal punishment when I had kids of my own. Now I do, and I'm even more against the concept than ever before. How you're supposed to teach a kid to think responsibly rather than react with aggression while whacking them is beyond me.
And Jessss, if you have a link to that study, that would be super. I've never come across any mention of it before (which is odd).
That being said, "spankings" for me were a mere swat here and there, and over the course of my childhood, never happened over a dozen times.
The key is not to be angry at your children, which is where the latter aggression may stem, but to discipline them when necessary. Most, if not all, children learn fairly quickly that a swat on the butt doesn't feel all that good and will follow the rules. I think this has much more impact than a "time out" in a room full of toys.
when i got slapped or spanked as a kid, i knew i had it coming. i'm a perfectly normal, non-violent person. my cousins that just got 'time-outs' are all still spoiled brats who have no concept of consequences- except they're all adults now.
maybe next they'll come out with a study that says lions who swat their cubs create more violent lions. the horror! the horror!
As a child, I was spanked quite often, and I didn't grow up to be aggressive or had behavior problems in school. In fact, I'm thankful to my parents for spanking me, because I think no matter how much "time out" I might have had, I just wouldn't understand that what I was doing was wrong and hurting other people.
Another interesting article was written in Journal of Child & Adolescent Trauma by Michele Knox and Jason Brouwer which shows that there are still significant amount of early childhood professionals who recommend spanking to parents of children 5 years and younger... Just something to ponder upon.
bottomline for me...if someone else spanked your kid, you'd call the cops. why is it ok for us to do it? because they're ours and we love them? it just seems like twisted logic to me. also, how many parents out there are spanking their kids with zero anger or frustration? not many i'd bet. i think it's more of a release for the spanker than it is a lesson for the spankee. anybody out there waiting 10-15 minutes after the incident to cool off before they spank their kids? i think spanking is done when the parent can't figure out any other way to make the behaviour stop NOW. if it's illegal for someone else to do it to your kid - you may wanna stop and think twice before YOU do it. and why stop at kids? if spanking really works, why wouldn't a good whack from your boss teach you not to miss another deadline?
Ofc. this studie is totaly corect, spanked kids tend to continue this life lesson to their kids, tehrefor the ARE more agressive :)
Also, "spare the rod" is not as much spanking as using a rod to beat a kid senseless. I think if you follow the bible and beat a kid near to death with a rod once, they probably never act up again.
@Zakk
"since when is 'white' a culture?"
I should have clarified I was talking specifically about white Americans. Believe it or not, there is a multitude of significant cultural differences between white Americans, African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Native Americans, Asian Americans etc.... The same goes for any multicultural Western country really.
In recognition of these differences, most psychological papers these days make the effort to record the ethnicity of their participants as a means of creating representative samples (if random allocation is not practical). They also record ethnicity in an effort to determine if their independent variables have differential effects in these cultures.
For far too long have researchers been using white Americans as their participants in studies and thinking that they can apply the results to everyone when this may not be the case. Only in the last 20 years or so have many more researchers been making the effort to consider cultural differences.
Lol! I set the garage on fire too! That was the only time I remember getting spanked and was probably the only time. I was spraying and lighting an aerosol brake fluid like a blowtorch and scorched the back wall. My dad found it came up to me, slapped me hard 2-3 times on the butt and then explained that right next to the wall was a 200 gallon plastic tank of diesel fuel. I could have easily blown myself up. I doubt I'd even remember it now if he just explained that to me.
Oh yeah, one other time was when my mom slapped my face. I was basically calling her stupid for about a half hour on a car ride somewhere and she finally slapped my face. I immediately realized that I was being a tremedous ass and completely deserved it.
I've never hit my kids but that doesn't mean they won't eventually deserve it and it will be beneficial.
second, the bible does make other vaguely similar statements (like 'he who spares the rod loathes his son') ... however, the most common types of 'rods' referred to in the bible are 1) a short, spiked club used to beat or kill wolves attacking livestock, or 2) a long slender staff that effectively lengthened the reach of a shepherd thereby helping him guide his flock if they began to drift.
Anthropolgists agree that the people most commonly referred to as "barbarians" by the invading Greeks were not the uncivilized brutes you so callously imply by your perjoritive use of the word. My ancestors were loving and civilized people and I resent your use of the word.
As an aside, that quote doesn't actually exists in the Bible. It tells you to do the opposite :)
/sarcasm
Also, you're an idiot if you think time outs dont work because theres a "room full of toys" First of all, dont buy your kid everything they whine for and you won't raise brats that you think you have to spank. Second, if a kid needs a time out, you sit them in a chair, like at the table or something.
Spanking your child teaches them it is okay to hit someone "as long as they deserve it." Actually parenting them works a lot better.
"...if someone else spanked your kid, you'd call the cops. why is it ok for us to do it? because they're ours and we love them? it just seems like twisted logic to me."
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Spanking is a legal form of abuse. I was both spanked and beaten at different times in my childhood. All it did was make me afraid. Afraid to get caught and afraid of my parents.
I have no problem with parents who spank their children so long as it's not excessive and as others have said, when the parent is angry.
When my brother got married his new wife was appalled at the thought of "spanking" their kids. In her mind spanking meant whaling away on the kid. Her views have since changed and she now has no problem swatting her children when they deserve it.
This whole study sounds shady to me. I don't condone spanking, I also don't condone psudo-science.
However, let's cut the crap.
Spanking is violent. Not as violent as belting, whipping, or other violence we used to inflict on children. We evolved. And your average person who grew up with little-to-no spanking is much less violent now than a 19th-century 'gentleman' who grew up being beaten regularly, and thought it was ok to beat his servants, spouse and children.
Spanking is unnecessary. You can raise respectful, kind children without spanking. Watch Nanny 911 or SuperNanny if you're in denial about the efficacy of non-violent discipline.
Spanking is a false-dichotomy. Just because there are hoodlums today that grew up in permissive homes doesn't mean that spanking would have fixed them. It's not a choice between spanking and permissive neglect.
There are verses in the book of Proverbs that talk about a "rod" but this adage is not present. The closest verse to this is Proverbs 13:24. "Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him."
The 'rod' of the Bible is widely understood to be a symbol that represents God's power and authority. It is not meant as something to fear, but something to respect and even take comfort in. See Psalm 23:4:
Even though I walk through
the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+23:4&version=NIV
When the Bible refers to the 'rod' in the context of parenting, it means just that, authority.
So what God is trying to tell us here is that if you as a parent exert no authority over your children, they will be wild. Children need that authority so they feel safe, even though they may not like it at times. I think every good parent can agree with that.
1. There's a ton of things parents can do with/to their children that strangers cannot. For instance, dressing them or bathing them.
2. Your argument is partially based on the flawed assumption that everyone would call the cops. There are, and have been, many parents who have been perfectly fine with a neighbor giving the kid a spank if he had been misbehaving on their watch. Of course, a total stranger off the street randomly grabbing a child and swatting it is very different, but I'm not sure if that's the distinction you're making.
3. I believe the idea is that kids don't have fully developed brains capable of various levels of complex reasoning. An employee can understand a myriad of possibilities for his screw-up, from pay cuts to getting fired, which could lead to losing his home and what about his family, etc. Children don't have that kind of reasoning-- their brains physically just aren't there yet. Ergo, more primitive, simple forms of discipline: pain = bad. Don't touch the lit stove again. Don't (heh) set the garage on fire again.
@felixthecat - "Spanking is abuse. Just like when many of you spankers grow old, and your children hit and punch you."
"Hit and punch" is not not not not the same as spanking. I'd love to see just ONE discussion of spanking that did not resort to conflating a pretty minor swat on the softest, squishiest, most padded part of the body with actual, severe abuse.
Call spanking abuse if you like, but at least try to be honest enough to recognize it's just not on the same level as...everything else, in the same way that getting punched when Daddy's drunk isn't the same as Uncle Diddle playing with you every night of your so-called childhood.
My mom would send me to my room, wait for me to calm down, and then come and talk to me. We'd talk about why I was in trouble, and she'd encourage me to see things from her perspective. By the time I was ten and I got caught by a police officer for sneaking out in the middle of the night (I really don't know why I thought that was a good idea) I punished myself with two months of grounding, and wrote 200 lines about why what I did was wrong, before my parents ever had the chance to pass judgement, at which point they were stunned because I was much harder on myself than they intended to be. I certainly never did it again.
To this day, what my mom thinks of what I do matters greatly to me.
those crying abuse probably think comedians are racist, glancing at cleavage is sexual harassment and equate 3 beers a day to alcoholism.
Oh, and sending a kid to his/her room is not abuse? *All* punishment can be considered some form/level of abuse (it's part of the nature of punishment). Some people just think emotional/psychological abuse is "more acceptable" than a spank, but it's all the same.
In either case, a person can take physical OR non-physical punishment to some excess. Maybe when the kid is bad, you can tie them up and leave them in an unlit basement. This situation is not physically damaging, but rather quite emotionally damaging. Kids really don't really understand the "big picture" until they've already become the person that they are going to be. A quick spank is an easy way to connect "certain action = spank = pain = bad," rather than "certain action = sit in corner = not bad or good."
We aren't aggressive adults, nor were we aggressive kids (besides typical sibling aggression). We also have a closer relationship with our parents than 99% if the people I know!
He gets a spanking when he continues a behavior that I or my husband have to say "no" or take something away more than a few times.
Some kids just react better to corporal punishment. Others will just laugh (my sister is one).
I was both spanked (by my mom) and beaten (by my dad) when I was a child. I know the difference, and I'm grateful to my mom that she cared enough about me to punish me for wrongdoings. The only way for kids to learn not to do something is to punish them for it (in whatever way works). I think I can remember less than half a dozen spankings my entire life, not counting the times I must have been swatted as a toddler (seriously, who really remembers that?).
I do admit that I slapped my son once, and it was more of a reflex to being bitten HARD (almost breaking the skin) than anything else. I didn't realize I did it until his eyes started welling with tears and a red mark (that went away after a few minutes) appeared on his cheek. I was absolutely horrified by what I had done and kept apologizing to him, but he hasn't bitten me since.
Now that's what I call abuse. Abuse of the English language! Ha! The objective "me" would be appropriate here. :)
This is what you get when you allow liberal arts students to do surveys. Lack of common sense is not science.
Seems like a no-brainer to me.
Parenting is hard. There is no panacea. After raising a 22 and a 19 year old, I can offer this. Never compromise. Not ever. Set the boundaries and then enforce them. You cannot waiver. You must be consistent.
It is possible to raise healthy, well-adjusted children without spanking them. That's resaon enough for me.
That phrase is not even in the bible!It was written by Samul Butler in the 1600s
"Origin
Spare the rod and spoil the child.This phrase has quite a long genesis. The coiner of the version that we use in everyday speech was Samuel Butler, in Hudibras, the satirical poem on the factions involved in the English Civil War, which was first published in 1662:
Love is a Boy,
by Poets styl'd,
Then Spare the Rod,
and spill the Child".
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/328950.html
Here is a petition to end the physical assault of children as 25 countries have beat us to:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/my?ltl=1273583569
1. pregnant
2. failing classes ( actually i have a's and b's)
3. cursing
4. Sneaking out
5. doing drugs
at this point i cannot wait to move out and these years make me know i do not want any kids whatsoever
i already have to clean the house make dinner watch after my brothers and sisters who refuse to listen to me, in my adult life i want to think about only me and i dont care if it sounds selfish im tired of it, living with my dad would be so much better but she refuses to give us up
anyway i even if i have a child i refuse to hit him or her because i do not want them to feel the hatred i do
If you are spanking your child because you are angry all you are doing is destroying their trust in you. Now I understand the concept behind the whole empathetic parenting revolution that most new mom's have jumped on the bandwagon for, yelling at your child constantly, using physical intervention as a primary form of discipline and just generally being mean and disrespectful to your child is not a good way to teach life lessons to them. However, neither is explaining every single decision you make in a day to your arguing 3 year old.
To all the activists out there who are "dead set" against spanking a child. Have any of you ever tried to teach a puppy not to pee on the floor by talking nice and explaining that it wrecks your carpet to them? No, because it makes absolutely no sense to do so, not only do they not have a language but they have no reasoning skills.
Until a child develops reasoning skills, you have to use some form of discipline that immediately links undesirable consequences with dangerous actions. Otherwise, you end up with a child who thinks it's a game to run off the sidewalk onto a road, because "mom will just chase me and I'll get a time out".
Some behaviours need to be stopped immediately to avoid the consequences of learning the "hard way".
My half-brother grew up in his mother's house, where spanking or consequenses were absent. I, on the other hand, grew up with my father and mother who did spank us. My dad had a belt that he spanked my sister and I with. I, maybe, got a handful of spankings in my whole life and deserved every one of them. My sister and I both went on to graduate high school at the tops of our classes, and went on to college, and to have wonderful families of our own. My brother dropped out of high school and turned into a criminal. He is still a drain on society to this day refusing to get a job and still being taking care of by his mother. She never taught him that there are consequences for your actions. And he seems to think everyone else is responsible for him, never taking responsibility for himself. It is so sad. But I realize more than anyone, what a difference in upbringing can do to children.
If we don't get a handle on our children and turn around this obvious stray from actual discipline, I fear our society will self destruct when our children become adults. Its a sad thing to watch. I think it is the parent's responsibility to teach a child what it means to have consequences. And before the children have advanced logic and reasoning skills, the only sure fire way to show them is through appropriate spankings. I do think marks and bruises cross the line, however, a quick swat on the behind sends the message that out of control behavior will not be tolerated.
I've never been into a physical altercation with anyone in my life, and I got spanked with a belt 3 or 4 times in my youth. I have the best relationship with my parents. They are excellent parents.
Good luck to those of you rearing the little hellions that are increasingly becoming out of control on their way to the state correctional facilities.
The young lady who is 16 and resents her grandmother for spanking... my heart goes out to you... Just have faith that you can break the cycle of violence. So many people that were abused as children seem to condone the abuse, even identifying with it. Because you can recognize the abuse for what it is... you have a chance to stop it.
My neighbours where I live all condone spanking children. Instead of true discipline, when ever the kids start acting out they get threatened with getting swatted. It only makes them act out worse. The oldest boy recently got kicked out of school because he hits other kids. He also can't read at the age of 8ish.
Children need their parents undivided attention and love. Parents need to read to their children everyday and spend time with them fostering their creativity and learning. And children need to be disciplined, not spoiled. They need to be taught how to do all the things they need to learn as adults, and when they make a mistake, they need to be respectfully told what they did wrong. Most importantly they need to be respected or they will never learn to respect themselves or others.
I have a friend that is a felon who was regularly beaten as a child. His mother never had enough time for him or his other siblings; and his father, who had a problem with teenage girls and heroin, committed suicide. His mother remarried, and would allow his step father to abuse all of them. His mother had all the boys on pills like Ritalin, because they all acted out all the time. They were crying out for her attention and love, and all she did was give them pills. Amazingly enough my friend still condones spanking children. Like the young lady of 16 years, he never wants children. He sais that all the people in his family grow up to be criminals. Its no wonder to me really.
I really liked this article on the topic of spanking-
http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/tenreasons.html
This article clears up alot of misconceptions in some of the previous comments in this thread.
For satyagraha-
chathaunt