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	<title>Comments on: Students Arrested for Not Paying Tip</title>
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		<title>By: scrub</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-3/#comment-1898444</link>
		<dc:creator>scrub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1898444</guid>
		<description>i live in America,Where you can eat where you like,leave a tip if you want to or not.if you dont like the resturant rules eat some place else. 2 of my kids are food servers and i still believe. you leave a tip only when service is good. if not No tip
it&#039;s not up to the manager as many of you believe it to be.
IT&#039;S UP TO YOU
the one paying the bill
This is AMERICA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i live in America,Where you can eat where you like,leave a tip if you want to or not.if you dont like the resturant rules eat some place else. 2 of my kids are food servers and i still believe. you leave a tip only when service is good. if not No tip<br />
it&#8217;s not up to the manager as many of you believe it to be.<br />
IT&#8217;S UP TO YOU<br />
the one paying the bill<br />
This is AMERICA</p>
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		<title>By: Scrub</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-3/#comment-1898436</link>
		<dc:creator>Scrub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1898436</guid>
		<description>i do not eat where i can not leave a tip of my choice
i 0 out tip and leave it on table or leave before i eat
i will be the one to choose how much and where i eat
i have a son and a daughter that has and will be in tbe bussiness again, i will still pay for service earned   THATS AMERICA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i do not eat where i can not leave a tip of my choice<br />
i 0 out tip and leave it on table or leave before i eat<br />
i will be the one to choose how much and where i eat<br />
i have a son and a daughter that has and will be in tbe bussiness again, i will still pay for service earned   THATS AMERICA</p>
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		<title>By: Mitch</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1896759</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1896759</guid>
		<description>@Darklordxnew
You say &quot;I&#039;m claiming that the entire system is retarded, and I refuse to participate in it.&quot; but
that is not true.

Refusing to participate would be avoiding restaurants that have table service because you are expected to tip.

You are participating, but participating very badly. The waiter has agreed to accept a lower wage for waiting on you with the expectation that you will pay for your service, and then you cheat him by not paying for the service. That would be like a student letting you tutor him for an hour and then handing you a $5 bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Darklordxnew<br />
You say &#8220;I&#8217;m claiming that the entire system is retarded, and I refuse to participate in it.&#8221; but<br />
that is not true.</p>
<p>Refusing to participate would be avoiding restaurants that have table service because you are expected to tip.</p>
<p>You are participating, but participating very badly. The waiter has agreed to accept a lower wage for waiting on you with the expectation that you will pay for your service, and then you cheat him by not paying for the service. That would be like a student letting you tutor him for an hour and then handing you a $5 bill.</p>
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		<title>By: justino</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1895164</link>
		<dc:creator>justino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 10:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1895164</guid>
		<description>In response to the &quot;how can it be mandatory&quot; question I&#039;ve seen here, it&#039;s pretty simple:
If the menu says (as I&#039;m assuming it did, because it usually does) that gratuity will be automatically included in the bill for parties of say 8 or more, it becomes a part of your bill not paid at the end of the day when you refuse to pay it.  I can understand why people think this is crazy, but I honestly am going to side with what some people (probably servers themselves) are saying here.
And I&#039;m not saying I would give worse service to a bad tipper.  I have people come in who have never tipped me.  I still put on the fake smile and they would never know my seething anger as I&#039;m politely serving their table because to treat someone badly because they didn&#039;t tip me would be tacky.  I afford the same courtesy to servers who for one reason or another offer me less-than-stellar service.  15 percent just because I know lots of things can factor into the service I get that I may not be aware of if I am not working there. I give people the benefit of the doubt and/or just try to maintain a standard of class.  Even if they are plain terrible.

Oh, the argument that a server&#039;s job is easy is a joke.  It&#039;s not a job you need a degree for, but you&#039;re on your feet all day and believe me, people are more often rude to servers than they are kind.  It can be both physically exhausting and emotionally demanding, even if it&#039;s not rocket science.  It&#039;s the same way in retail.  You take a lot of crap from people for some of the lowest paying jobs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to the &#8220;how can it be mandatory&#8221; question I&#8217;ve seen here, it&#8217;s pretty simple:<br />
If the menu says (as I&#8217;m assuming it did, because it usually does) that gratuity will be automatically included in the bill for parties of say 8 or more, it becomes a part of your bill not paid at the end of the day when you refuse to pay it.  I can understand why people think this is crazy, but I honestly am going to side with what some people (probably servers themselves) are saying here.<br />
And I&#8217;m not saying I would give worse service to a bad tipper.  I have people come in who have never tipped me.  I still put on the fake smile and they would never know my seething anger as I&#8217;m politely serving their table because to treat someone badly because they didn&#8217;t tip me would be tacky.  I afford the same courtesy to servers who for one reason or another offer me less-than-stellar service.  15 percent just because I know lots of things can factor into the service I get that I may not be aware of if I am not working there. I give people the benefit of the doubt and/or just try to maintain a standard of class.  Even if they are plain terrible.</p>
<p>Oh, the argument that a server&#8217;s job is easy is a joke.  It&#8217;s not a job you need a degree for, but you&#8217;re on your feet all day and believe me, people are more often rude to servers than they are kind.  It can be both physically exhausting and emotionally demanding, even if it&#8217;s not rocket science.  It&#8217;s the same way in retail.  You take a lot of crap from people for some of the lowest paying jobs.</p>
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		<title>By: Splint Chesthair</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1894869</link>
		<dc:creator>Splint Chesthair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1894869</guid>
		<description>Do servers really want to do away with tipping in favor of a living wage?  I made tons of money through tips throughout highschool and part of college.  I certainly made more money than if I got paid $12 an hour.  Did I get stiffed a few times? Sure, but I also got huge tips more often than that as well.  I&#039;m guessing it&#039;s the mediocre servers that want to do away with tips.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do servers really want to do away with tipping in favor of a living wage?  I made tons of money through tips throughout highschool and part of college.  I certainly made more money than if I got paid $12 an hour.  Did I get stiffed a few times? Sure, but I also got huge tips more often than that as well.  I&#8217;m guessing it&#8217;s the mediocre servers that want to do away with tips.</p>
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		<title>By: Belle O'Cosity</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892482</link>
		<dc:creator>Belle O'Cosity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892482</guid>
		<description>Tipping is a joke. If I get good service... blah blah blah. Servers are doing a job, and that job is taking your order and bringing it out to you. They are not performing monkeys. People expect servers to entertain, and if you are female, well you better flirt, otherwise NO TIP. Anyone can say they didn&#039;t get good service, it&#039;s a matter of perspective. Most likely those people lied, they just didn&#039;t want to tip. I say, pay servers a living wage, then there would be no more need or expectation of tipping. But that won&#039;t happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tipping is a joke. If I get good service&#8230; blah blah blah. Servers are doing a job, and that job is taking your order and bringing it out to you. They are not performing monkeys. People expect servers to entertain, and if you are female, well you better flirt, otherwise NO TIP. Anyone can say they didn&#8217;t get good service, it&#8217;s a matter of perspective. Most likely those people lied, they just didn&#8217;t want to tip. I say, pay servers a living wage, then there would be no more need or expectation of tipping. But that won&#8217;t happen.</p>
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		<title>By: EvanEvan</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892456</link>
		<dc:creator>EvanEvan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892456</guid>
		<description>“Mandatory Gratuity” is an oxymoron.  Mandatory is something that is required or obligatory.  Gratuity is something given over and above what is due, generally in return for an expectation of good service.  

I am not sure if they are trying to get around sales tax or income tax by labeling a veiled service charge as a mandatory gratuity.  Possibly they double dip by using the mandatory gratuity as wages and a business expense write off.  Of course, it is more likely that they were just trying to sound fancy and wrote a service charge as a mandatory gratuity without realizing the meaning of the words.  

However, the diners should not be criminally liable for a rational interpretation of the terms of the menu.  This really sounds in Contract and should be interpreted by a court in a civil action and not in a criminal context.  In fact, a court should look at the plain meaning of the words and find that, absent some other language defining the terms on the menu, the diners cannot be liable for something above and beyond what is due.  

In other words, the problem is with the terms of the menu and “mandatory gratuity” should be changed to “service charge.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Mandatory Gratuity” is an oxymoron.  Mandatory is something that is required or obligatory.  Gratuity is something given over and above what is due, generally in return for an expectation of good service.  </p>
<p>I am not sure if they are trying to get around sales tax or income tax by labeling a veiled service charge as a mandatory gratuity.  Possibly they double dip by using the mandatory gratuity as wages and a business expense write off.  Of course, it is more likely that they were just trying to sound fancy and wrote a service charge as a mandatory gratuity without realizing the meaning of the words.  </p>
<p>However, the diners should not be criminally liable for a rational interpretation of the terms of the menu.  This really sounds in Contract and should be interpreted by a court in a civil action and not in a criminal context.  In fact, a court should look at the plain meaning of the words and find that, absent some other language defining the terms on the menu, the diners cannot be liable for something above and beyond what is due.  </p>
<p>In other words, the problem is with the terms of the menu and “mandatory gratuity” should be changed to “service charge.”</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892412</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892412</guid>
		<description>So if you go to a restaurant as a group, sit at two different tables and yell across the room at each other to avoid mandatory gratuities.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So if you go to a restaurant as a group, sit at two different tables and yell across the room at each other to avoid mandatory gratuities.  <img src='http://www.neatorama.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: DishPlate</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892332</link>
		<dc:creator>DishPlate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892332</guid>
		<description>TIP means &quot;To Insure Promptness.&quot;  But that extends its meaning to quality.  12% is more than enough for delivering cups, glasses, plates and/or bowls with promptness and clean courtesy.  However, it is a gratuity, which means a free gift by the patron if the patron so chooses.

For those patting themselves on the back b/c they are big tippers, go crazy and tip 50%, big shots.  It will simply make matters worse by promoting a dubious entitlement for carrying plates and utensils.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TIP means &#8220;To Insure Promptness.&#8221;  But that extends its meaning to quality.  12% is more than enough for delivering cups, glasses, plates and/or bowls with promptness and clean courtesy.  However, it is a gratuity, which means a free gift by the patron if the patron so chooses.</p>
<p>For those patting themselves on the back b/c they are big tippers, go crazy and tip 50%, big shots.  It will simply make matters worse by promoting a dubious entitlement for carrying plates and utensils.</p>
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		<title>By: David Parker</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892311</link>
		<dc:creator>David Parker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892311</guid>
		<description>Is it mandatory to pay tip for food in Australia?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it mandatory to pay tip for food in Australia?</p>
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		<title>By: sc0tty</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892309</link>
		<dc:creator>sc0tty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892309</guid>
		<description>Americans and their tipping. What a country?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Americans and their tipping. What a country?!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892300</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 06:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892300</guid>
		<description>you know what it is bull because you should not leave no tip if you want i mean its nice and all but come on what if the person didnt have it and besides with crappy service i would have done the same. so shit let those kids go damn</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you know what it is bull because you should not leave no tip if you want i mean its nice and all but come on what if the person didnt have it and besides with crappy service i would have done the same. so shit let those kids go damn</p>
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		<title>By: AndroidBoy420</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892297</link>
		<dc:creator>AndroidBoy420</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 06:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892297</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s what I&#039;ve done in this situation.  When you see you&#039;re going to get crappy service, leave.  If you ordered something that hasn&#039;t come yet, don&#039;t pay for it.  This works best if you leave right as the food is coming up.
I know ppl that work in restaurants that pay minimum wage despite the legal loophole and they evenly divide all gratuities amongst all staff, except management.  They realize it&#039;s a team effort, so the busboys, cooks and dishers all get a cut of the take.

To the person who derided wait staff by saying the job could be done by 10 year-olds.  Wrong.  I&#039;ve eaten at family restaurants and been served by 12 year olds.  You would be surprised how offensive they can be on account of their inexperience...like saying &quot;are you done with that yet&quot; rather than &quot;I&#039;ll take that if you&#039;re finished&quot;.  That stuff really diminishes the quality of your dining experience.
Personally I tip whenever a certain amount of personal servitude is required.  A waiter has to do pretty much whatever a customer wants so I tip them.  The lady at my coffee shop (not s-bux) has to deal with my micromanagement of how my espresso is made.  She gets tipped too.  A surgeon or computer repairman does not have to do whatever I say.  No tip for them.
If there was a reform of the minimum wage laws for wait staff, I&#039;d still tip.  Especially if my table had been particularly demanding.

I am dismayed at the contempt that many of these posters show towards waiters.  I&#039;d spit in your food for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s what I&#8217;ve done in this situation.  When you see you&#8217;re going to get crappy service, leave.  If you ordered something that hasn&#8217;t come yet, don&#8217;t pay for it.  This works best if you leave right as the food is coming up.<br />
I know ppl that work in restaurants that pay minimum wage despite the legal loophole and they evenly divide all gratuities amongst all staff, except management.  They realize it&#8217;s a team effort, so the busboys, cooks and dishers all get a cut of the take.</p>
<p>To the person who derided wait staff by saying the job could be done by 10 year-olds.  Wrong.  I&#8217;ve eaten at family restaurants and been served by 12 year olds.  You would be surprised how offensive they can be on account of their inexperience&#8230;like saying &#8220;are you done with that yet&#8221; rather than &#8220;I&#8217;ll take that if you&#8217;re finished&#8221;.  That stuff really diminishes the quality of your dining experience.<br />
Personally I tip whenever a certain amount of personal servitude is required.  A waiter has to do pretty much whatever a customer wants so I tip them.  The lady at my coffee shop (not s-bux) has to deal with my micromanagement of how my espresso is made.  She gets tipped too.  A surgeon or computer repairman does not have to do whatever I say.  No tip for them.<br />
If there was a reform of the minimum wage laws for wait staff, I&#8217;d still tip.  Especially if my table had been particularly demanding.</p>
<p>I am dismayed at the contempt that many of these posters show towards waiters.  I&#8217;d spit in your food for them.</p>
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		<title>By: coltrek</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892273</link>
		<dc:creator>coltrek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892273</guid>
		<description>Tipped Employees Under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)
An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.

Even the tipped worker received no tips, the pay is still at least $7.25 per hour as paid by the employer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tipped Employees Under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)<br />
An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.</p>
<p>Even the tipped worker received no tips, the pay is still at least $7.25 per hour as paid by the employer.</p>
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		<title>By: flux</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892212</link>
		<dc:creator>flux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892212</guid>
		<description>There are some places I will NEVER tip. Starbucks being one of them. Sorry starbucks employees  OH EXCUSE ME *fancy MOCKING voice* Baristas,I know you *think* you&#039;re better than McDonalds but to me you&#039;re still fast food. Everything is pre-made. You aren&#039;t inventing squat. You aren&#039;t back there roasting beans slowly stirring them by hand for extra freshness. You&#039;re following employee instructions. Probably from a presentation video.
NO. TIP. FOR. YOU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some places I will NEVER tip. Starbucks being one of them. Sorry starbucks employees  OH EXCUSE ME *fancy MOCKING voice* Baristas,I know you *think* you&#8217;re better than McDonalds but to me you&#8217;re still fast food. Everything is pre-made. You aren&#8217;t inventing squat. You aren&#8217;t back there roasting beans slowly stirring them by hand for extra freshness. You&#8217;re following employee instructions. Probably from a presentation video.<br />
NO. TIP. FOR. YOU.</p>
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		<title>By: AnthonyC</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892155</link>
		<dc:creator>AnthonyC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892155</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m generally a good tipper, 18-25%. More than once I&#039;ve gone out with a bunch of cheap friends and ended up paying a heck of a lot extra to ensure a decent tip (not a mandatory one).

I understand why gratuity should be higher at fancy restaurants- generally such meals are longer, with more courses and more attentive service. Still, in an ideal world, I don&#039;t think a % is the best way to calculate the extra appropriate tip. Whether I order mashed potatoes or or porterhouse, it&#039;s one plate to bring over. The % system is also unfair at breakfast- what do I tip on a $5 meal? It would be insulting to leave $1.

I&#039;d much rather have servers paid more and factor it all into the meal prices, but really (since the tip system is already in place), it wouldn&#039;t work unless a LOT of places did it at once. Patrons wouldn&#039;t know what changed, and would tip anyway (or not go, because they see a price hike). How many times to you see people ask their servers about things that are clearly spelled out on the menu?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m generally a good tipper, 18-25%. More than once I&#8217;ve gone out with a bunch of cheap friends and ended up paying a heck of a lot extra to ensure a decent tip (not a mandatory one).</p>
<p>I understand why gratuity should be higher at fancy restaurants- generally such meals are longer, with more courses and more attentive service. Still, in an ideal world, I don&#8217;t think a % is the best way to calculate the extra appropriate tip. Whether I order mashed potatoes or or porterhouse, it&#8217;s one plate to bring over. The % system is also unfair at breakfast- what do I tip on a $5 meal? It would be insulting to leave $1.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d much rather have servers paid more and factor it all into the meal prices, but really (since the tip system is already in place), it wouldn&#8217;t work unless a LOT of places did it at once. Patrons wouldn&#8217;t know what changed, and would tip anyway (or not go, because they see a price hike). How many times to you see people ask their servers about things that are clearly spelled out on the menu?</p>
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		<title>By: ben.konig</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892134</link>
		<dc:creator>ben.konig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892134</guid>
		<description>Waiters should be paid minimum wage, this less than minimum wage and having the customer make up the rest is total BS. It is really out of control with starbucks and other places where they dont do jack except hand you something over the counter asking for tips.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Waiters should be paid minimum wage, this less than minimum wage and having the customer make up the rest is total BS. It is really out of control with starbucks and other places where they dont do jack except hand you something over the counter asking for tips.</p>
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		<title>By: DaleB</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892123</link>
		<dc:creator>DaleB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892123</guid>
		<description>Surely the concept of &quot;less than MININUM wage&quot; is one that should be banned - what&#039;s the point in even having a minumum wage if restaurant owners can subvert it?

Plus, why should a larger bill mean a larger tip? Whether I order house red or an expensive wine with my food the waiter&#039;s job is identical. 

America; the land of the free to charge whatever the hell you like eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely the concept of &#8220;less than MININUM wage&#8221; is one that should be banned &#8211; what&#8217;s the point in even having a minumum wage if restaurant owners can subvert it?</p>
<p>Plus, why should a larger bill mean a larger tip? Whether I order house red or an expensive wine with my food the waiter&#8217;s job is identical. </p>
<p>America; the land of the free to charge whatever the hell you like eh?</p>
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		<title>By: raf</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892115</link>
		<dc:creator>raf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892115</guid>
		<description>mandatory gratuity == oxymoron</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mandatory gratuity == oxymoron</p>
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		<title>By: Christophe</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892109</link>
		<dc:creator>Christophe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892109</guid>
		<description>For the first time of my life, a couple weeks ago, we didn&#039;t give any tip (we were 6) on a lousy and expensive tourist trap in water St in Plymouth, MA.

Un-tip-ing is a way to tell some people they should look for another job. The waistress, the cook, the owner, they all should do something else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the first time of my life, a couple weeks ago, we didn&#8217;t give any tip (we were 6) on a lousy and expensive tourist trap in water St in Plymouth, MA.</p>
<p>Un-tip-ing is a way to tell some people they should look for another job. The waistress, the cook, the owner, they all should do something else.</p>
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		<title>By: slowcar</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892106</link>
		<dc:creator>slowcar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892106</guid>
		<description>If the tip is declared as mandatory it is part of the bill. Don&#039;t eat there if you don&#039;t like it.

For me as an European/German it would be very unusual to find this, although i have seen similar in Italy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the tip is declared as mandatory it is part of the bill. Don&#8217;t eat there if you don&#8217;t like it.</p>
<p>For me as an European/German it would be very unusual to find this, although i have seen similar in Italy.</p>
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		<title>By: Lewis TL</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892104</link>
		<dc:creator>Lewis TL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892104</guid>
		<description>THE SYSTEM SUCKS!

What a backward system that only favours the owner of the restaurant. BOO! BOO! BOO!
If the owner of the restaurant paid the wait staff a decent wage and all tips were up to the diners to decide, based on the service received, and given as a bonus to their wage...everyone would be happier. YAY! YAY! YAY!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THE SYSTEM SUCKS!</p>
<p>What a backward system that only favours the owner of the restaurant. BOO! BOO! BOO!<br />
If the owner of the restaurant paid the wait staff a decent wage and all tips were up to the diners to decide, based on the service received, and given as a bonus to their wage&#8230;everyone would be happier. YAY! YAY! YAY!</p>
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		<title>By: Hillarie</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892101</link>
		<dc:creator>Hillarie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892101</guid>
		<description>I understand that waiters get paid under minimum wage. I understand that tips are their main income, but that shouldn&#039;t make them mandatory. Tips should be earned, not expected. I hope the kids take this to court, because it just shows greed on the restaurant&#039;s part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand that waiters get paid under minimum wage. I understand that tips are their main income, but that shouldn&#8217;t make them mandatory. Tips should be earned, not expected. I hope the kids take this to court, because it just shows greed on the restaurant&#8217;s part.</p>
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		<title>By: sc0tty</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892091</link>
		<dc:creator>sc0tty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892091</guid>
		<description>Wasn&#039;t there a Consumer&#039;s Bill of Rights proposal or something? Well, if there was one specifically for eating out one of the amendmentts should be &quot;the consumer has the right to waive server tip entitlement based on exceptionally poor performance of said server and/or restaurant establishment.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wasn&#8217;t there a Consumer&#8217;s Bill of Rights proposal or something? Well, if there was one specifically for eating out one of the amendmentts should be &#8220;the consumer has the right to waive server tip entitlement based on exceptionally poor performance of said server and/or restaurant establishment.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: lame</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892083</link>
		<dc:creator>lame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892083</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s no excuses for poor service especially in this kind of setting. Mandatory tipping does equal poor service.

Also, more ridiculous stories coming out of the US, why am I not surprised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s no excuses for poor service especially in this kind of setting. Mandatory tipping does equal poor service.</p>
<p>Also, more ridiculous stories coming out of the US, why am I not surprised.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Vaughan</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892079</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Vaughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 06:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892079</guid>
		<description>Wrong! 
How can someone be ARRESTED for not paying a &quot;gratuity&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wrong!<br />
How can someone be ARRESTED for not paying a &#8220;gratuity&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Pagan Hayes</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892077</link>
		<dc:creator>Pagan Hayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892077</guid>
		<description>A New Zealander here - we have a legal minimum wage and there is no tipping expected - if I get *AMAZING* service I *might* tip - but it is the wait staffs&#039; job to serve food - retroactively bribing them to do their job well seems insane to me..like tipping a surgeon so that I get neat stitches on my operation. That being said, I would tip in the U.S. in most cases, as I know the crazy (to our eyes) system they have there. This seems a big shout that that system needs to change...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A New Zealander here &#8211; we have a legal minimum wage and there is no tipping expected &#8211; if I get *AMAZING* service I *might* tip &#8211; but it is the wait staffs&#8217; job to serve food &#8211; retroactively bribing them to do their job well seems insane to me..like tipping a surgeon so that I get neat stitches on my operation. That being said, I would tip in the U.S. in most cases, as I know the crazy (to our eyes) system they have there. This seems a big shout that that system needs to change&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Darklordxnew</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892072</link>
		<dc:creator>Darklordxnew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892072</guid>
		<description>&quot;That said, I believe if you cannot afford the tip, you can&#039;t afford to eat out.&quot;

Its that kind of self-centered entitled thinking that ensures I never tip unless the service was AMAZING. Then I toss on 2 or 3$&#039;s.

@Mitch: I&#039;m not claiming responsibility for social change. I&#039;m claiming that the entire system is retarded, and I refuse to participate in it. If that means the server who waited on me is out 3 or 4$ for essentially 5 minutes or so (AT MOST) of work, then BOOHOO; so be it. 

I make 15$ an hour tutoring between my classes. I don&#039;t get tipped ensuring people get good grades, that help them for the rest of their careers, nor do I ever expect too. Neither should people who pickup a plate of food from a cook, and walk it 15 bloody feet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;That said, I believe if you cannot afford the tip, you can&#8217;t afford to eat out.&#8221;</p>
<p>Its that kind of self-centered entitled thinking that ensures I never tip unless the service was AMAZING. Then I toss on 2 or 3$&#8217;s.</p>
<p>@Mitch: I&#8217;m not claiming responsibility for social change. I&#8217;m claiming that the entire system is retarded, and I refuse to participate in it. If that means the server who waited on me is out 3 or 4$ for essentially 5 minutes or so (AT MOST) of work, then BOOHOO; so be it. </p>
<p>I make 15$ an hour tutoring between my classes. I don&#8217;t get tipped ensuring people get good grades, that help them for the rest of their careers, nor do I ever expect too. Neither should people who pickup a plate of food from a cook, and walk it 15 bloody feet.</p>
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		<title>By: LisaL</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892070</link>
		<dc:creator>LisaL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892070</guid>
		<description>Yeah I never did understand why waisters/ess don&#039;t get paid minimum wage. Just pay them like everyone else and do away with tipping.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah I never did understand why waisters/ess don&#8217;t get paid minimum wage. Just pay them like everyone else and do away with tipping.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892069</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892069</guid>
		<description>Friggen A, it&#039;s called &quot;gratuity.&quot; Comes from the same word as &quot;gracious.&quot; It&#039;s almost contradictory to have a mandatory gratuity. I know it&#039;s done, but come on! Arresting people for not leaving a tip after bad service?! I&#039;m a pretty good tipper, but it peeves me to see it required.

And now I&#039;m hungry. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Friggen A, it&#8217;s called &#8220;gratuity.&#8221; Comes from the same word as &#8220;gracious.&#8221; It&#8217;s almost contradictory to have a mandatory gratuity. I know it&#8217;s done, but come on! Arresting people for not leaving a tip after bad service?! I&#8217;m a pretty good tipper, but it peeves me to see it required.</p>
<p>And now I&#8217;m hungry. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Aussie</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892056</link>
		<dc:creator>Aussie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 03:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892056</guid>
		<description>I would postulate that, should you add the restaurant bill and average tip charge together then perform some statistical mumbojumbo and compare the total average price of a restaurant meal and staff wages between a typical &quot;below minimum wage&quot; US restaurant and a standard &quot;minimum wage&quot; European, Australian or other restaurant, prices and wages probably work out to be fairly similar.

So why not just give the staff the standard minimum wage, up the food prices a bit to keep the restaurant&#039;s profit the same, and avoid all the angst that the whole stupid tipping scenario causes?

Honestly, I just can&#039;t understand why doing a service job in a restaurant is paid differently from every other job in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would postulate that, should you add the restaurant bill and average tip charge together then perform some statistical mumbojumbo and compare the total average price of a restaurant meal and staff wages between a typical &#8220;below minimum wage&#8221; US restaurant and a standard &#8220;minimum wage&#8221; European, Australian or other restaurant, prices and wages probably work out to be fairly similar.</p>
<p>So why not just give the staff the standard minimum wage, up the food prices a bit to keep the restaurant&#8217;s profit the same, and avoid all the angst that the whole stupid tipping scenario causes?</p>
<p>Honestly, I just can&#8217;t understand why doing a service job in a restaurant is paid differently from every other job in the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892054</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 03:53:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892054</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve seen this policy varied before - sometimes 8 persons or more qualifies for an automatic 18 or 20% tip. 

I do think it&#039;s necessary that a server be tipped; the majority of servers rely almost solely on their tips as a main source of income. However, perhaps 18 or 20% is  little steep for a mandatory add-on. Perhaps 15%, which seems like a good compromise, would allow for the server to be compensated, perhaps more fairly, given the increased number of orders, but would not be outrageous, especially considering that sometimes service is lousy.

That said, I think a person should have a right to refuse a tip if it&#039;s not required 100% of the time. If the tip were always included, as in many countries, then complaints would decline.

Also, being arrested for this matter is ludicrous. I can see a court date being fair - an act like this could be considered equal to a traffic fine violation, and treated as such in court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen this policy varied before &#8211; sometimes 8 persons or more qualifies for an automatic 18 or 20% tip. </p>
<p>I do think it&#8217;s necessary that a server be tipped; the majority of servers rely almost solely on their tips as a main source of income. However, perhaps 18 or 20% is  little steep for a mandatory add-on. Perhaps 15%, which seems like a good compromise, would allow for the server to be compensated, perhaps more fairly, given the increased number of orders, but would not be outrageous, especially considering that sometimes service is lousy.</p>
<p>That said, I think a person should have a right to refuse a tip if it&#8217;s not required 100% of the time. If the tip were always included, as in many countries, then complaints would decline.</p>
<p>Also, being arrested for this matter is ludicrous. I can see a court date being fair &#8211; an act like this could be considered equal to a traffic fine violation, and treated as such in court.</p>
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		<title>By: DaveL</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892037</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892037</guid>
		<description>The system won&#039;t change until restaurant policies change. I have two perspectives on this...

1) Tipping has reached a point where it is now often an uncomfortable part of the patrons overall experience and unfortunately one of the most memorable as it&#039;s one of the last things experienced. Since the customer experience is just as important as the food... privately owned restaurants should definitely consider doing away with tipping as it might be better to just let your customers leave full and happy rather than being overly judged at tipping time.

2) I&#039;ve traveled a great deal and the best service by far were in those nations where waiting is a profession. They receive an education, have to pass governmental requirements, are paid a professional salary and therefore take their jobs very seriously. Bad service? There are many others waiting in line to take their job so competition weeds out the bad ones and the restaurant, staff and customers are all the better for it.

This probably wouldn&#039;t be implemented in chain restaurants but at least people would have options and know what to expect from both types of systems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The system won&#8217;t change until restaurant policies change. I have two perspectives on this&#8230;</p>
<p>1) Tipping has reached a point where it is now often an uncomfortable part of the patrons overall experience and unfortunately one of the most memorable as it&#8217;s one of the last things experienced. Since the customer experience is just as important as the food&#8230; privately owned restaurants should definitely consider doing away with tipping as it might be better to just let your customers leave full and happy rather than being overly judged at tipping time.</p>
<p>2) I&#8217;ve traveled a great deal and the best service by far were in those nations where waiting is a profession. They receive an education, have to pass governmental requirements, are paid a professional salary and therefore take their jobs very seriously. Bad service? There are many others waiting in line to take their job so competition weeds out the bad ones and the restaurant, staff and customers are all the better for it.</p>
<p>This probably wouldn&#8217;t be implemented in chain restaurants but at least people would have options and know what to expect from both types of systems.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892036</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892036</guid>
		<description>Everyone is making a big deal out of the manager, tipping in general, etc. How about the police who actually placed a citizen under arrest? Police can only arrest for a criminal offense. Was a crime committed here? Can it be shown as a point of law? This is America, the land of the free....[SORRY- -DOES NOT COMPUTE]...thread terminated.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone is making a big deal out of the manager, tipping in general, etc. How about the police who actually placed a citizen under arrest? Police can only arrest for a criminal offense. Was a crime committed here? Can it be shown as a point of law? This is America, the land of the free&#8230;.[SORRY- -DOES NOT COMPUTE]&#8230;thread terminated&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Maeveone</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892034</link>
		<dc:creator>Maeveone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892034</guid>
		<description>... wow Americans are amazing with their tipping. We don&#039;t do it at all here in Australia. *any* extra money should be taken gratefully, not expected as &#039;15% or you&#039;re rude!&#039; nor &#039;if you don&#039;t tip at all you&#039;re horrible&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; wow Americans are amazing with their tipping. We don&#8217;t do it at all here in Australia. *any* extra money should be taken gratefully, not expected as &#8217;15% or you&#8217;re rude!&#8217; nor &#8216;if you don&#8217;t tip at all you&#8217;re horrible&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Mitch</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892029</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 02:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892029</guid>
		<description>I was just remembering the time I did the math wrong on a tip and gave around 5% instead of the 17.5% I intended, so the next day I went back to the restaurant and gave the cashier money to give to the waiter. Hopefully my kind of people outnumber no class wankers who stiff wait people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just remembering the time I did the math wrong on a tip and gave around 5% instead of the 17.5% I intended, so the next day I went back to the restaurant and gave the cashier money to give to the waiter. Hopefully my kind of people outnumber no class wankers who stiff wait people.</p>
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		<title>By: nafhan</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892026</link>
		<dc:creator>nafhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892026</guid>
		<description>IANAL, but... I think since the restaurant accepted the non-tip portion of the check, the guys who got arrested may be OK as far as being charged with stealing or whatever. I know in other industries (insurance for one) if the service provider accepts any money, even the incorrect amount, it&#039;s legally as if they got the correct amount.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IANAL, but&#8230; I think since the restaurant accepted the non-tip portion of the check, the guys who got arrested may be OK as far as being charged with stealing or whatever. I know in other industries (insurance for one) if the service provider accepts any money, even the incorrect amount, it&#8217;s legally as if they got the correct amount.</p>
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		<title>By: Urban Legend Watcher</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892024</link>
		<dc:creator>Urban Legend Watcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892024</guid>
		<description>@50 (Cheezwhiz)  Nope, that&#039;s just an urban legend.  See:

http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.asp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@50 (Cheezwhiz)  Nope, that&#8217;s just an urban legend.  See:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.asp</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pinkd</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892018</link>
		<dc:creator>Pinkd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892018</guid>
		<description>If the tip was mandatory, so too should the good and proper service that it pays for.  Clearly, that&#039;s never the case, especially when wait staff attitudes include threats of food tampering.

Most times and for most people when patrons enjoy their meal, it&#039;s because they enjoyed their meal.  The lion&#039;s share of the tip rightfully belongs to the kitchen staff.

When was the last time anyone chose a place because of the wait staff?

I&#039;m sure setting the table, bringing the drinks and meals, refiling the water glasses, punching up the cash register, and all the while presenting a positive yet unobtrusive attitude require top-flight Ph.D.s these days, and most restaurant patrons should be just grateful for the uncanny superhuman acumen of wait staff, but honestly, get over yourselves.  If there weren&#039;t ten people in line waiting to take your sub-par paying job because it requires the skills of a ten year old, restaurant owners would compete to pay you better the same way they compete for chefs.

Tipping is the most asinine aspect of the restaurant industry because it&#039;s predicated on the assumption that patrons should not expect good and proper service as the norm.  What if every industry were like that?

Need a good mechanic?  How about a good dentist, defense lawyer, plastic surgeon, or oncologist?  Or how about tipping the turkey farmer and processor for your delicious Thanksgiving turkey, and especially for not, you know, tampering with your food?

Besides, the places paying sub-par are probably not places renowned for their service to begin with, and if your wait skills and/or other skills are that good, why are you working in a sub-par paying establishment?

Ultimately, the relevant &quot;tip&quot; here is, when in Bethlehem, stick to fast food and self-serve because Bethlehem cops are no doubt generously &quot;tipped&quot; by its sub-par paying establishments to enforce their tipping &quot;mandates&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the tip was mandatory, so too should the good and proper service that it pays for.  Clearly, that&#8217;s never the case, especially when wait staff attitudes include threats of food tampering.</p>
<p>Most times and for most people when patrons enjoy their meal, it&#8217;s because they enjoyed their meal.  The lion&#8217;s share of the tip rightfully belongs to the kitchen staff.</p>
<p>When was the last time anyone chose a place because of the wait staff?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure setting the table, bringing the drinks and meals, refiling the water glasses, punching up the cash register, and all the while presenting a positive yet unobtrusive attitude require top-flight Ph.D.s these days, and most restaurant patrons should be just grateful for the uncanny superhuman acumen of wait staff, but honestly, get over yourselves.  If there weren&#8217;t ten people in line waiting to take your sub-par paying job because it requires the skills of a ten year old, restaurant owners would compete to pay you better the same way they compete for chefs.</p>
<p>Tipping is the most asinine aspect of the restaurant industry because it&#8217;s predicated on the assumption that patrons should not expect good and proper service as the norm.  What if every industry were like that?</p>
<p>Need a good mechanic?  How about a good dentist, defense lawyer, plastic surgeon, or oncologist?  Or how about tipping the turkey farmer and processor for your delicious Thanksgiving turkey, and especially for not, you know, tampering with your food?</p>
<p>Besides, the places paying sub-par are probably not places renowned for their service to begin with, and if your wait skills and/or other skills are that good, why are you working in a sub-par paying establishment?</p>
<p>Ultimately, the relevant &#8220;tip&#8221; here is, when in Bethlehem, stick to fast food and self-serve because Bethlehem cops are no doubt generously &#8220;tipped&#8221; by its sub-par paying establishments to enforce their tipping &#8220;mandates&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnFen</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892016</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnFen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892016</guid>
		<description>If it&#039;s mandatory, it&#039;s not a tip. It&#039;s part of the purchase price.

Personally, I don&#039;t go to places where there&#039;s a mandatory gratuity. It&#039;s insulting. Just be honest and raise the prices on the menu.

I do tip well (typically 20+%, believe it or not), but the tip is a bonus, not a requirement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it&#8217;s mandatory, it&#8217;s not a tip. It&#8217;s part of the purchase price.</p>
<p>Personally, I don&#8217;t go to places where there&#8217;s a mandatory gratuity. It&#8217;s insulting. Just be honest and raise the prices on the menu.</p>
<p>I do tip well (typically 20+%, believe it or not), but the tip is a bonus, not a requirement.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mitch</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892010</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892010</guid>
		<description>And Darklordxnew, you are cheating the servers when they have to spend time waiting on you instead of people with class who pay for the service as they are supposed to.

If you don&#039;t tip you don&#039;t deserve to get waited on. You are not an agent of social change when you don&#039;t pay for your service. It does not make the management pay their wait staff better. It just makes you a cheap asshole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Darklordxnew, you are cheating the servers when they have to spend time waiting on you instead of people with class who pay for the service as they are supposed to.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t tip you don&#8217;t deserve to get waited on. You are not an agent of social change when you don&#8217;t pay for your service. It does not make the management pay their wait staff better. It just makes you a cheap asshole.</p>
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		<title>By: Phroghollow</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892008</link>
		<dc:creator>Phroghollow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892008</guid>
		<description>What is it with Americans and tipping, start a revolution and get higher prices on the shit to include higher wages for staff. Most countries in the world have no tipping. Geez.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is it with Americans and tipping, start a revolution and get higher prices on the shit to include higher wages for staff. Most countries in the world have no tipping. Geez.</p>
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		<title>By: PhillyMe</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892007</link>
		<dc:creator>PhillyMe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:37:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892007</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not a &quot;Mr.White&quot; -- I do tip proportional to service and that has extended to tipping 50% for service that was so far &quot;above and beyond&quot; I doubt I&#039;ll ever see it&#039;s like again.

But this restaurant and the police who aided and abetted them are so far in the wrong here that they deserve a major smack-down.  If the restaurant (and police) consider &quot;mandatory gratuities&quot; to actually be a &quot;service fee&quot; rather than a gratuity they would have had to  collect (and send to the county/state/Feds) sales tax on those monies.

I&#039;m not familiar with this particular restaurant&#039;s practices, but none of the restaurants I&#039;ve ever visited collect/pay sales tax on these &quot;mandatory gratuities&quot; and I believe it is highly unlikely this restaurant does that either.  As a consequence of claiming that the amount in dispute was an owed fee, the restaurant ought to be promptly audited and billed by the Pennsylvania Department of Revenue and by the IRS to determine what they owe in delinquent taxes and penalties.  And I hear the 2006 federal tax law changes add new, guaranteed bounties for whistleblowers who turn in businesses that are underpaying their taxes...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a &#8220;Mr.White&#8221; &#8212; I do tip proportional to service and that has extended to tipping 50% for service that was so far &#8220;above and beyond&#8221; I doubt I&#8217;ll ever see it&#8217;s like again.</p>
<p>But this restaurant and the police who aided and abetted them are so far in the wrong here that they deserve a major smack-down.  If the restaurant (and police) consider &#8220;mandatory gratuities&#8221; to actually be a &#8220;service fee&#8221; rather than a gratuity they would have had to  collect (and send to the county/state/Feds) sales tax on those monies.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not familiar with this particular restaurant&#8217;s practices, but none of the restaurants I&#8217;ve ever visited collect/pay sales tax on these &#8220;mandatory gratuities&#8221; and I believe it is highly unlikely this restaurant does that either.  As a consequence of claiming that the amount in dispute was an owed fee, the restaurant ought to be promptly audited and billed by the Pennsylvania Department of Revenue and by the IRS to determine what they owe in delinquent taxes and penalties.  And I hear the 2006 federal tax law changes add new, guaranteed bounties for whistleblowers who turn in businesses that are underpaying their taxes&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Miss Cellania</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892006</link>
		<dc:creator>Miss Cellania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892006</guid>
		<description>Terry, the difference is that most likely one, if not both, of the tables will leave a tip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terry, the difference is that most likely one, if not both, of the tables will leave a tip.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892003</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892003</guid>
		<description>Whats the difference between 8 people sitting at 1 table
and 8 people sitting at 2 tables of 4 ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whats the difference between 8 people sitting at 1 table<br />
and 8 people sitting at 2 tables of 4 ?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mitch</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1892001</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1892001</guid>
		<description>A tip isn&#039;t a prize or a gift. It is compensation for service provided. Most people know that waiters and waitresses receive a smaller wage because they work for tips. Waiting on tables can be very difficult and a server who is making every effort to do the job correctly can easily fall behind when a place is very busy. This server shouldn&#039;t have to do her job without pay because these spoiled little college brats weren&#039;t happy about the service. Is probably their parents&#039; money anyway. I hope they get fined for their theft of service along with having to pay restitution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A tip isn&#8217;t a prize or a gift. It is compensation for service provided. Most people know that waiters and waitresses receive a smaller wage because they work for tips. Waiting on tables can be very difficult and a server who is making every effort to do the job correctly can easily fall behind when a place is very busy. This server shouldn&#8217;t have to do her job without pay because these spoiled little college brats weren&#8217;t happy about the service. Is probably their parents&#8217; money anyway. I hope they get fined for their theft of service along with having to pay restitution.</p>
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		<title>By: BigBertha</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1891989</link>
		<dc:creator>BigBertha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1891989</guid>
		<description>As a server/bartender, I thank my lucky stars that I live in Oregon where I am paid a legitimate wage (granted it is minimum, but Oregon has a decent minimum wage).  I think it is f-ed up that in most states waitstaff is paid dirt, because it assumes that customers ALWAYS tip a certain amount.  What it comes down to is that (in those states), whether or not a server is tipped, the server is still taxed as though they received a tip, so when people do not tip, or leave a poor tip, it is in a way costing that server money.  Which is entirely unfair.  But bear in mind, the servers did not create the situation, the state did. 

That said, I believe if you cannot afford the tip, you can&#039;t afford to eat out.  Go to a buffet or McDonald&#039;s, where you don&#039;t have someone running around catering to your every demand.  

Yes, sometimes you get sub-par service and that (in my opinion) is worthy of a sub-par tip (less than 15%), but the situation was clearly handled poorly by the customers.  And let&#039;s be honest, we don&#039;t know exactly what was going on in the restaurant that night, so we can&#039;t know all the specifics of the situation, and regardless, a 0% tip (in our culture) is entirely uncalled for.  The bottom line is that some things are beyond a server&#039;s control.  A waitress cannot help how fast the kitchen works, and some people drink an entire soda in less than 30 seconds, so refills can be impossible to keep up with at times.  So...  I say cut the waitstaff a little slack because we don&#039;t know exactly what kind of customer those college students were.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a server/bartender, I thank my lucky stars that I live in Oregon where I am paid a legitimate wage (granted it is minimum, but Oregon has a decent minimum wage).  I think it is f-ed up that in most states waitstaff is paid dirt, because it assumes that customers ALWAYS tip a certain amount.  What it comes down to is that (in those states), whether or not a server is tipped, the server is still taxed as though they received a tip, so when people do not tip, or leave a poor tip, it is in a way costing that server money.  Which is entirely unfair.  But bear in mind, the servers did not create the situation, the state did. </p>
<p>That said, I believe if you cannot afford the tip, you can&#8217;t afford to eat out.  Go to a buffet or McDonald&#8217;s, where you don&#8217;t have someone running around catering to your every demand.  </p>
<p>Yes, sometimes you get sub-par service and that (in my opinion) is worthy of a sub-par tip (less than 15%), but the situation was clearly handled poorly by the customers.  And let&#8217;s be honest, we don&#8217;t know exactly what was going on in the restaurant that night, so we can&#8217;t know all the specifics of the situation, and regardless, a 0% tip (in our culture) is entirely uncalled for.  The bottom line is that some things are beyond a server&#8217;s control.  A waitress cannot help how fast the kitchen works, and some people drink an entire soda in less than 30 seconds, so refills can be impossible to keep up with at times.  So&#8230;  I say cut the waitstaff a little slack because we don&#8217;t know exactly what kind of customer those college students were.</p>
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		<title>By: ted</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1891986</link>
		<dc:creator>ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1891986</guid>
		<description>They were students. Do I believe the service was lousy? Probably not that lousy.

However, the idea of a mandatory tip is silly. I&#039;ve eaten in only a couple of places that had that, including restaurants in Europe.

Three of us were getting some sandwiches in Rome once. Total cost about: 15 euros. If we were to sit down at their not-very-fancy outdoor tables instead of the nice park across the street, we would have paid almost 50 euros. We sat across the street where it was free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They were students. Do I believe the service was lousy? Probably not that lousy.</p>
<p>However, the idea of a mandatory tip is silly. I&#8217;ve eaten in only a couple of places that had that, including restaurants in Europe.</p>
<p>Three of us were getting some sandwiches in Rome once. Total cost about: 15 euros. If we were to sit down at their not-very-fancy outdoor tables instead of the nice park across the street, we would have paid almost 50 euros. We sat across the street where it was free.</p>
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		<title>By: LarryInBG</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1891984</link>
		<dc:creator>LarryInBG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1891984</guid>
		<description>One can hope that this debacle causes a tremendous decline in patronage - perhaps even the closing of - the Lehigh Pub. Then the servers can blame no one but the management, who must be true jerks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One can hope that this debacle causes a tremendous decline in patronage &#8211; perhaps even the closing of &#8211; the Lehigh Pub. Then the servers can blame no one but the management, who must be true jerks.</p>
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		<title>By: Tiping is not a place in China</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2009/11/19/students-arrested-for-not-paying-tip/comment-page-2/#comment-1891973</link>
		<dc:creator>Tiping is not a place in China</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/?p=27630#comment-1891973</guid>
		<description>Those of you who think 15% should be mandatory, why not just do away with tips all together and increase wages 15%? Or worse yet, pay servers minimum wage?
It is your job to bring me food from the kitchen. If it is the steak and a bottle of Chateau Margaux &#039;82 I should have to pay the same for your service as if it were salad and bread sticks. It&#039;s not like you did anything differently.

gra?tu?i?ty
??/gr??tu?ti, -?tyu-/ [gruh-too-i-tee, -tyoo-] 
–noun, plural -ties.
1. 	a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.
2. 	something given without claim or demand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those of you who think 15% should be mandatory, why not just do away with tips all together and increase wages 15%? Or worse yet, pay servers minimum wage?<br />
It is your job to bring me food from the kitchen. If it is the steak and a bottle of Chateau Margaux &#8217;82 I should have to pay the same for your service as if it were salad and bread sticks. It&#8217;s not like you did anything differently.</p>
<p>gra?tu?i?ty<br />
??/gr??tu?ti, -?tyu-/ [gruh-too-i-tee, -tyoo-]<br />
–noun, plural -ties.<br />
1. 	a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.<br />
2. 	something given without claim or demand.</p>
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