What is Evolution?

1. MightyCow
   May 19th, 2009 at 2:04 pm

   Great link. We need better Evolution education so people aren't frequently quoting nonsense info and pretending it disproves modern science.

2. Justin
   May 19th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

   In before the Creationists and or Intelligent Designers flood this website.

3. Skipweasel
   May 19th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

   It's an amazingly simple and easily demonstrated idea - beats me why anyone feels the need to argue with it.

4. Droplet
   May 19th, 2009 at 6:38 pm

   I explained this to a woman I work with. You've got a bunch of llamas who eat from shrubs and some that are tall enough to eat trees. One day a disease comes around and kills all the trees. The short ones die. The tall ones live and become giraffes. That's all. It's not disputable or emotional or anything like an opinion. Evolution is real because it must be real. That's it.

   Until people get a little bit of learning about about the scientific definition of Theory, as in way more than fact, we should call it something else.

   I'm tired of accepting others' opinions on this matter when we have fact and I'm just being nice to protect their feelings. I'm not helping anyone doing that, just insulting their intelligence.

5. Rocky
   May 19th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

   If that was the case, Droplet, why don't the trees simply grow to rid themselves of the nuisance llamas? Do the short trees ever come back? Why would they?

   A really good scientific theory is subjected to these kinds of criticisms. Otherwise you end up just another type of zealot like Skipweasel. Or you, for that matter. It's real because it must be real? That sounds very familiar.

6. ted
   May 19th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

   Giraffes used to be llamas?

7. Athon
   May 19th, 2009 at 8:30 pm

   Rocky, that's precisely what we find happens. Hence life of all forms is constantly evolving under the pressure of other biotic and abiotic changes in the environment. Some animals will get longer necks, the trees they feed on grow taller still or find other forms of defence...and life evolves.

   It is odd how much controversy surrounds such a neat, well supported theory. You don't find so many people arguing germ theory with the same passion, or pointing out vehemently that the standard model is 'just a theory'. Evolution ranks on the same scale as far as theories go, yet to support it brings on accusations of dogma and zealotry.

   Athon

8. Rocky
   May 19th, 2009 at 9:12 pm

   Just to clarify on my own part, Athon, I'm not calling these people above zealots because I have some bone of contention with the theory. It's a damn fine theory, and I studied it for years. It's because their own arguments for it don't go beyond "you're stupid not to believe it." There's nothing scientific about that method of argument, and they are demonstrating that the supposed religious nut-jobs might have already shown up while they were warning us about them.

9. gambit
   May 19th, 2009 at 10:25 pm

   i am opposed to evolution. if we used to monkeys, how come we aren't evolving into better humans???

10. gambit
    May 19th, 2009 at 10:27 pm

    What is evolution? It's a bunch of made up crap that doesn't make a bit of sense.

11. Wesley
    May 19th, 2009 at 10:53 pm

    I believe Droplet meant that a disease comes around and kills all the shrubs, not the trees.

    Oh, and please don't feed gambit the troll.

12. Jack Myles
    May 19th, 2009 at 11:12 pm

    I love these heated debates! Faith does not rely on evidence; it even thrives in the face of contradictory findings, and those reliant on facts and proof can't get behind an idea that offers none. There is no convincing the other side. I just love hearing the ideas. In the end, that's all either side has.

13. dutchboy
    May 19th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

    Evolution satisfies your need for linear thinking.

14. Justin
    May 20th, 2009 at 12:37 am

    Here is the problem folks. People who think evolution doesn't happen will never believe you no matter what you say. This is because they cherry pick their evidence to support their preconceived notions. On top of that, the "evidence" they use to support their claims are either misrepresented, or come from dubious sources.

    It is sad, but until more faith leaders come to understand that evolution does not disprove their religion, we will continue to have this disconnect. I think many religious organizations are moving in the right direction, but we still have some major stumbling blocks.

    Evolution is real, and it happens.

15. Skipweasel
    May 20th, 2009 at 1:54 am

    gambit:- You, personally, are not evolving into a better human being, but what makes you think the rest of humanity isn't?

    Evolution takes a very long time - and it needs pressures to make it happen - without a good reason to select one model over another there will be very little change over millions of years. Crocodiles, for example, are a damned good fit to their niche - so they haven't changed.
    Early humans were a less good fit - we needed to walk more upright to conserve energy (waddling like a chimp is inefficient, walking on two legs is very efficient), we needed larger brains (ours are measureably larger than proto-human's) and so on.

    Were you expecting Aunty Flo to suddenly grow longer arms so she didn't keep asking you to get things off the top shelf? IF, given a very large number of generations an Aunty Flo had a better chance of survival with longer arms than without then yes, all other things being equal, longer arms might develop. One of the issues is that all other things /aren't/ equal - there are so many competing pressures that change is generaly slow and very hard to predict.

16. B.J.
    May 20th, 2009 at 6:13 am

    You're all religious; look at all the evidence, and follow it where it leads, no matter where it leads.

17. Ron Moses
    May 20th, 2009 at 8:09 am

    gambit: "...if we used to be monkeys..."

    We didn't. We were never monkeys, we did not evolve from monkeys, the theory of evolution does not say we evolved from monkeys, and it would be plainly absurd to believe we did. Unfortunately, too many creationists prefer to lie to you (in direct violation of a certain Commandment, I believe) and tell you this is what evolution says in order to "debunk" it. This lie is often followed up with the question "Then why are there still monkeys?" It's like saying that Christianity can't be true because Christianity says that the earth is flat and we know that's obviously wrong. (Christianity does not say that, of course, which is exactly the point. It would be extremely disingenuous, or at least ignorant, to make such an argument.)

    Evolution says that humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor, which was neither human nor ape. It's essential to understand that in order not to sound foolish. Next time the argument comes up, you'll be better prepared to state your case without being dismissed as one who knows nothing about what he's arguing against.

18. ted
    May 20th, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    So giraffes aren't from llamas, then?
    *so confused*

    I was brought up in a Christian home, where we learned about dinosaurs. My parents didn't try to tell me that dinosaurs all lived during the time of Moses, and they didn't tell me that I had to accept the story of creation as 100% fact. I think if more Christians were raised this way, they wouldn't have such a conflict with the science of evolution, and they wouldn't advance preposterous hypotheses to make the facts fit their conceptions.

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