Also, Georgians don’t use civilians as shields or operate an insurgency. Your argument has no merit.

Did you also forget that Russia failed hard in Afghanistan against Belligerents supported by the USA?

And the idea that Texas would EVER let Mexico retake it…yikes, that has major lack of historical research written all over it.

Last I checked, the Afghans, particularly the Pashtun majority, have a long and feircely proud tradition of defeating any foreign empire stupid enough to dare invade their land. Georgia, on the other hand, is a small country with a very corrupt and self serving elite horribly mismanaging it. This country also suffers from extreme political fragmentation; one third of the country is Georgia in international law only, dominated by de-facto independent separatist republics.

So your logic that Russia is stronger than the USA rests on the grounds that the USA is struggling with the Graveyard of Empires thousands of miles from its territory while Russia is able to handily defeat a very weak and indefensible country on its immediate border? Oh yes, Russia is a ‘big man’. (sarcasm)

You evidently have a biased spin towards this situation.

I assume you are Russian. With this, keep in mind that the USA is NOT Russia. The social ethos of these two nations are so profoundly different, that for Panarin or any other Russian to declare doom for the USA on purely Russian standards of disintigration is idiotic.

Panarin sited the lack of ‘national’ policies in America as a big mover for disintigration. He apparently doesn’t understand the decentralized nature of the USA, where the states have, or at least had, a good measure of sovereignty. If a strong centre is essential to the maintanence of a union, my country (Canada) should have disintigrated in the 1980′s.

His ethnic enclaves don’t make sense either. Unlike Russia, where national/ethnic homelands have long been defined or demarked, The USA is a heterogenous soup of just about everyone and anyone. The Native tribes are spread throughout the country, not just the Midwest. Ditto for the former ‘Confederates’. He overestimates the size of the Chinese community on the Pacific coast; big it may be, but not dominant by any means. So sorry, your state-sponsered dellisions of doom by the ‘ethnic’ groups “pulling a Quebec” on the federal government has no sense.

As for Alaska? By my understanding of world history, the selling of the territory of Alaska from the Russian Empire to the United States for a somewhat tidy sum had no expiry date or lease factor applied. And moreover, if it did, let me remind you that there is virtually no remainder of collonial Russian culture in Alaska.

Furthermore, allow me to remind you that during the height of the cold war, Alaska was in the unenviable position of existing halfway between the two rival superpowers, and thus would likely have been the first target of Soveit attack if push came to shove. Although I have no knowledge to back up this claim, something tells me that this reason would lead to a fair deal of hostile feelings between Alaskans and Russians. Are you willing to shed Russian blood to hold on to yet more land? Methinks Russia already has enough of these types of problems – Chechnya ring any bells?

Russia the strongest country after the USA. And can and is stronger than the USA following the results of five-day war with Georgia. Georgia has been equipped by the advanced weapon, but Russia has crushed in five days. And the USA are at war with Afghanistan many years and there is no to it an end. But not in it business.

Panarin has not specified, that someone will grasp the USA. Otherwise Russia ???????? to itself the big piece, instead of Alaska, historically belonging Russia. He speaks about possibility of civil war. And for this purpose 1 % of gangsters among the population suffices. Look, whether all so is good ????? in the USA? All have peeping, a habitation. That that personally to you is good, it does not mean, that to the neighbour too. And full hungry not the friend.

First off, the obvious mistake is that the U.S. is NOT going to break up… what sort of evidence is there for that? But let’s humor Igor, and follow his line if thought with a series of less and less likely scenarios…

IF the United States divided, it would NOT divide into 6 separate countries, it would divide into 2. The racist/backward south, aka “Texas Republic,” and part of the south of “Central North American Republic.” The rest of the states could feasibly join with Canada, but more likely with Canada under U.S. influence.

Now, IF the United States did divide up into 6 regions, which is already extremely unlikely… Mexico and Canada will NOT take over two of them. Russia taking over Alaska is the most likely, followed with China trying to take over the Western U.S. But even then, the other 4 or 5 “states” would not allow it, because even if they aren’t joined as an official nation, they still have vested interest in keeping China off of the mainland.

Ugh I could keep going on but I don’t know why I’m wasting my time with such a bogus theory.

be able to stand when the treasousness representitives

are within………………………………………

- Why are you Americans so worried? Have you become so ignorant not only of others, but of yourselves as well? Have you forgotten your history? :-p

Fortunately, I know your history, and what it entails.

So, I propose my counterargument to why this particular ‘death of the USA’ scheme cannot and will not happen.

1) America’s would be Conquerers are either unwilling or unable to subjugate the breakaway states. Consider the following:

- Although Alaska was once part of the Russian Empire, this colonial heritage has long been lost as Americans colonized the territory. To propose that Alaska, a state nearly entirely populated by English-speaking US citizens, will catipulate to the country that was regarded in the past (and today, to an extent) as the avowed enemy of capitalism and freedom by most Americans, is laughable. Alaska would most likely go it alone or join Canada for trade and political conveiniences. (ie: Ottawa is a closer federal capital than Moscow or even Washington, and Canadian cities and ports are more easily accessable than other American or Russian cities)

- Even if an ‘Atlantic America’ joins the EU, it is a moot point. The EU is, as of right now still an association of independent states, not a state itself. Atlantic America, most likely headquartered at Washington, D.C, would still be independent in this relationship.

- The very idea of a Communist state taking over a land as obbsessively decadent and self-centred as the Hollywoodic California has no fans in either L.A. or Beijing. Also, some of the more eastern states would never enter this relationship.

- Texas and it’s “New Confederacy” would rather go it alone than join Mexico. Why should Texas, a state with great wealth and political stability, willingly bind itself to the country it
forcably seperated itself from before, and the country that is so impoverished and anarchy ridden that the central government would be unable to protect Texas’ interests? Plus, Texans are doing their best to keep Mexicans out allready – not a rosy thought for political union.

- The Midwest has a population greater than that of Canada, and Canada is not an imperialistic power. To ask my countrymen to accept thirty five million Americans is something that is not polite conversation in Canada, as this union would spell political suicide. Quebec, alarmed by the quick reduction of it’s influence in Ottawa, and of the Ènglish American `Borg` (ie: `Resistance is futile, Frenchy – you shall be assimilated!) taking up shop, would promptly secede. The Atlantic provinces might follow suit. When the dust settles, we would have a Canada that is mostly inhabited by Americans, who would set up a new American republic in place of our Canadian constitution, and we would rapidly become the new United States.

2) Americans are a united people.

To compare America`s proposed break-up to the dissolution of the USSR is a denial of history. The USSR was a highly centralized state, with most political and economic power held by one of it`s sixteen republics. (Russia) The fifteen other, much smaller Soviet Republics were dragged into the union and the domination of Russia against their nationalist desires. The United States, on the other hand, is a decentralized federation where most of the states are on equal footing. There are of course, the large states and the small states, such as California, New York, and Texas versus Hawaii, Rhode Island, and Vermont; but there is no outright abusive of power in the USA by the large states than there was in the USSR. The US Senate, as a matter of fact, was created to stop the tyranny of the majority.

Plus, the USA is a nation of immigrants – everyone who lives in America today is desended from someone who came to the country hundreds – or in the case of the American Indians – thousands of years ago. Many are recent immigrants. Because of this diversity, and the seemingly endless flow of American nationalism, the idea of America dividing on ethnic lines has no merit. The `ìllegal aliens` are in the USA because they love the country, not because they want to conquer peices of it.

It is understandable why the Russian thinks the way he does. Russia`s historic troubles with the Chechens, Ukrainians, and Kazaks makes the idea of ethnic pluralty without violence a confusing notion for Russians, while it is an undeniable reality in the United States.

3) Global Pecking Order

To suggest that America’s neighbors and rivals will carve up the defunct USA implies parity of strength and intent between the conquerers. Consider this:

- Mexico is a weak central state, with very little power to exert authority beyond it’s borders.
- Canadians neither want nor are capable of taking the American Midwest.
- the European Union is not a nation-state.
- China does have a huge and powerful army (+2,500,000 soldiers, plus tanks, artillery, advanced aircraft, and a sophisticated command structure with well trained generals)
but only a modest navy. Good luck trying to get to California.

4) The Way Out

Although I don`t believe that America will be partitioned and conquered, I do believe that America is in for some hard times. Eventually the 50 trillion $ debt will catch up with them, and then – CRASH! The end of American global hegemony. The United States will continue to exist, but will be so debt ridden that no nation will lend to it. Faced with this, I predict that the USA will be forced to sell all of it`s overseas military establishments to the countries they occupy, suspend military R&D indefinately, scrap it`s costly nuclear arsenal, decommision much of it`s navy, scrap NASA, end all of it`s remaining social services, and reduce it`s homeland army to a smaller, cheaper, more efficient fighting force. (less than 300,000 soldiers)
In other words, an isolationist America will reammerge – Uncle Sam sans the big stick.
After this painful transistion, US debt should contract enough to allow some form of economic reconstruction to prevent a similar fiasco from ever happening again. During this time I also recommend that America do some soul-searching – rediscover it`s old hatred of imperialism and it`s former love of liberty for all.

5) Finally…

I’d like to get rid of some of the stupid misconceptions I have read in other comments.

- Russians are not Communist anymore. The Soveit Union ended eighteen years ago.

- Texans are not hillbillies. I met a Texan who was visitting Canada once, and he was a great guy with a funny accent.

- Gog and Magog are references to two great alliances of nations, not nations themselves.

- Canadian health care does not fall from the sky. We pay through the nose for it.

- Americans aren’t cowards or wimps. The economic crisis was largely caused by rich Americans taking crazy gambles in the financial industry. The American nation as a whole is one of risk-takers. Also explains the over-abundance of firearms.

- Mexican immigrants aren’t intentionally destabilizing the USA. They come for work conditions and livelihoods they could not possibly have enjoyed in rural Mexico.

- Canada does have an army; a good efficient army of about 100,000 total persons. But where the US army is akin to a massive, cumbersome broadsword that is difficult to manage and more difficult to swing, Canada’s army is more like a small, sharp dagger that is easy to manage and quick to deploy. The American army is designed for long, massive offensive wars, while Canada’s army is designed for internal security and international peace keeping. Whether one style is better than another is debatable

- There is absolutely no Scriptuaral reference to the United States, except in the Mormon faith.

Another thing, I don’t know why so many people here think that it is such an impossibility. Many of the states are bankrupt. Most industry is gone. Our “multinational corporations” show no allegiance to our laws and are wrought with corruption. We are raising an entire generation of uneducated, unskilled individuals.

America has been losing it influence from since the 70′s, we have dismantled many of our social safety nets and embraced greed and cruelty as virtues. To many around the world we have become the obese invalid that is unable to take care of himself.

Unless we can change course and start to take responsibility on the local level, we are not going to be capable of standing up to foreign influence.

Standing up against corporate fascists is a start.

However, where Ross is correct is on the influence of China and their industrial might, in addition to the assets they have in America. It’s an unfortunate reality, even if China is suffering right along side the rest of the world financially. They have a lot of our gold as collateral, and I’m guessing they might want their assets back (if we’re talking about conventional wars and/or financial takeovers). The advantage of the U.S., of course, is that we can simply refuse to honor our financial obligations if it means ruining our nation. China has stopped buying our debts, but we are still indebted to them. Also, China is the perfect template, the textbook government, for the United Nations. That is how they want the rest of the world to operate.

Leah Allen gives a good estimate of 20 years in regard to a return to old agrarian ways and the demise of our technological state. Installing socialism in the U.S. (if it takes root) will take about five years. That will be our swan song, but it would take some time for the country to collapse.

And while Gregory Davis’ prediction is waaaay out there, his statements still ought to remind us of two things: our country operates on prosperity (i.e, a strong economy). No prosperity means no funding, and no funding means no means to keep a country running at its optimum level. When or if it tanks to perilous levels, keep an eye on your standing federal armies, because their deployment to police the People is the next step to keeping the nation stabilized if there’s no food, running water or basic living amenities.
I’m outta here, try the buffet.

There was the movie “war of the worlds”too.

Our civilian, armed citizens are better soldiers and better marksman than any army from the east.

We have over 200mil private weapons!
Not to mention Devine Providence and the unstoppable American spirit on our side. At the end of the day,we would burn piles of dead chinks and ruskies and dance around the flames.

Bring it on……..

If it does I’m going to probably ponder killing myself because I will be Canadian! lol…SERIOUSLY? this map is all wrong. Cali and Texas would be independent. The atlantic would probably go to the EU.

Hawaii would be and independent state.

Alaska would be taken by Russia the Far north would be under Canadian influence and hopefully Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois make a State in combination…I really don’t want to be Canadian, lol.

L.R.

Any nation that exerted it’s influence without invitation would be met with the long known consequence of an invasion of the mainland United States

“You cannot invade mainland America. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass” -Admiral Itsoroku Yamamoto

Typical, moronic obama voters.

If there is a collapse of the USA, which is kind of a silly concept, this map will never be a reality. Texas will never become part of Mexico – that’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Mexico is in no position, politically, militarily, or economically, to be annexing anything. Alaska may be annexed by Canada, as may the American Midwest and Northeast. Idaho will remain sovereign and a nation unto itself as long as possible.

However, the USA will likely have a revolution before a full collapse. This professor has a sci-fi sense of things, not a historical. History shows that cultural divisions (language and racial) divide countries, not necessarily economic. Even if there is a massive economic collapse, the political divisions in America will remain relatively unchanged, at least in revolutionary terms. Outlying political bodies like Alaska and Hawaii may be lost to the union, but these things happen all the time. There is a serious case to be made for Hawaiian independence anyway.

But more importantly preceding any collapse you are likely going to see some of the states that can exist on their own (New York/New Jersey, Texas, Florida, California) breaking away . From that, as those states typically contribute far in excess to what they receive in addition to the turbulence and insecurity shutting off the tap on foreign investment through T-Bills triggering a huge spending crunch. Since we would be talking about halving the budget. From there either endless bickering over what is left would tear the country apart many joining the states that left, others splitting off into two or so groups. AK and HI would likely be left out to dry as they are too far away and too expensive to upkeep, or the group of states will stick it out until the foreign investment returns and the states and fed cut the fat to live sans some key states.

The US military based over in other countries will continue for a bit, say two or three years, but most forces will be cut back due to not being able to affor to pay for them. Give that situation about five years tops before the countries they’re based in kicks them out. Most career military will either go mercenary or come home, depending on how they will pay to get there.
The common enlisted will bail pretty quick.

One thing I forgot to consider is the conferate south. Those states might or might not form their own union. But one scenario I see is the Atlantic reagion will pretty much revert to its original thirteen colony/states, with the midwest reverting to Louisiana Purchase status. Alaska and Hawaii will definately go independent, choosing alignments on a business standpoint. Sometimes Russia, sometimes Canada, specifically Yukon, and British Colombia for AL, and pick any Asian nation for Hawaii as needed. The irony would be to align itself with Japan.

TX, NM, AZ, amd SoCal have no choice but to at least deal with Mexico. Don’t forget that Venezuela and Chavez are just itching to stick it to the US, so the collapse will motivate him to invade Mexico with Russia’s help. Brazil will probably not stand in the way of that, and the other countries like Panama will simply give in without a fight.

And I’m in agreement that the great lakes reigon would align itself with Canada, specifically Ontario, as in the old fur trader days of the 1600s.

Don’t think that the EU is not a contender as an outside influence. These days, the world is watching the US like a hawk. The US will fail, and the world will dance in the streets, a modern version of the fall of Rome.

Here’s the real low down for you. China doesn’t care one jot about your current economic problems and they certainly arn’t suffering from them. You don’t even realise they’re buying out Africa with all of it’s resources do you. As for the EU and the UK, well, our economic probelms are down to you and the reason we can’t come to your rescue, thanks to the sub primes we simply cant afford to. We dont worship the Queen, the general discussion revolving around such subjects usually ask the question, how much longer do they have left? The general anserw, one or two generations at best, the same can be said of the Vatican and the Popes. All of western civilsation is facing a huge change, a change that will destroy all the old countries in all but name at best, the only diffrence is that the younger population of Europe is already planning and organising for what comes after where as your just burying your head in the sand.

You have to realise the the east and west coast are decades ahead of the central states in terms of philosophy, commerce and society and that devide grows greater by the day. Your greatest minds are fleeing your country, your greatest corporations are either corrupt and rely on insider trading or are being brought out by firms that have no nationality and do not care about the average american. Your greatest dream, that of freedom and democracy now belongs to my generation and my peers. The ideals that the states where based on are noble and pure but you your selves betrayed them when you let the neo-cons take power. We have watched those mistakes, we saw them being repeated time and time again and we have no intention of ever letting them happen on the earth we are inheriting.

Your only ray of hope is Obama and the chance he might actually be able repair the bridges you have burnt with your allies, if you do not support him in doing that you dont have a chance. You can not stand alone and if you keep up this frankly, insulting attitude that we are somehow lower than you then you will be alone, and you will fall. Please. listen to your cousins, listen to your fellow man, you have spent a decade not doing so and it’s really begining to show. This is the 21st century, 19th and 20th c attitudes will no longer be tolerated, they are a weakness and we can not afford them. Hell you still think that a third world war will be fought on earth, despite the fact your own military is developing orbital capable weapons and Russia and China have already tested theirs. Do you even realise the UK has its own tropical launch facilities as well as being part of the European effort, do you even realise that the space station (the tactical high ground) is a multinational effort that come 2010, 2012 will be supplied almost entirly from Europe and India. Do you even knoqw that your reliance on capatalisim means you have sold all your ace cards to us. Your politicians have sold you down the river and made you little more than ‘Merry-Kins’ (yes that’s what we call you ’cause your so drunk on power and so incapable of really wielding it in a constructive manner) You really should have listened to Bill Hicks, we all did.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/30/business/worldbusiness/30gazprom.htm l?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1230605707-8HlI4rTsGm9S67BVGI0C1Q

If the USA were to fail, the other countries would be in no position to do anything about it. They’d be too busy collapsing, themselves.

Just because Russia used to own Alaska, doesn’t mean they’d get it back. You might as well say that Spain would then get Florida back, and France would take over Louisana. Or the native Americans would be able to take a piece somewhere. Not likely.

It seems to me thatnone of you arethinking about what would happen toyou if thiswere to really happen. The socio-political fallout from this. The UnitedStates has a big stake in every aspect of not only our lives but the lives andpolitics of therest of the world. Not to mention our economic superiority. You idiots, you support this, guesswhat. Every one ofyou fools using your first amedment previlegde to speak out against your own nation are beyond naive. Do you really think that if the nation split up we would be able to enjkoy our civil libertties? We may have our problems, but they dont compare to the problems of the Chinese governments, the russian government, and YES the European Union. Canadamay be like america on the outside butthey do thingsalot differently than us. I dont want to worship that queen they have, and we shouldnt be subject to their backwards way of life.

If the United States split up like this, if would be higly , likely that thethird and FINAL world war would follw. leading to billions of deaths. Look at whats happening in the middle east over just oil. imagine what would happen if theentire would economy dissapeared because of this fallout.

I dont understandpeople like this. Its rediculousthat you would support the downfall of your own nation without thinking of everything that you would lose. What about your right to free speech, or your right to YOUR OWN MONEY. Or maybe the priviledge of being part of the most powerful militaryforce in theworld. We dont have to worry about invasions, or political fallout.

I guess you people would loveto see your families slaughered everytime thedictators get pissed off about a splinter in their pinkies.