Are Americans Losing Their DIY Skills?

1. Courageous Grace
   September 6th, 2008 at 12:23 pm

   I am proud to say that I can change a tire, battery, oil, and most other basic maintenance items on my car.

   However, if I am stranded on a busy highway with a flat tire (especially at night) you better damn well believe I'm going to make use of my insurance's complimentary roadside assistance for my own safety (and since I rarely drive anywhere without my son, his safety).

2. plainswalker75
   September 6th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

   My friend and I purchased a "Handyman's Bible" from 1965 at a Goodwill and there some amazing projects in there; the very first chapter we paged through was how to build a racing speedboat! Other notable section include building a one-story suburban home, from the foundation up to the plumbing, wiring your own CB radio set and making "Safety Bombs" out of a used lightbulb and aluminum and iron shavings!

   People are definitely less handy these days, probably due to the availability of cheap mass produced import goods. However, I'd blame a lot of this on the overall decline of public schools and the safety Nazis; how many teenagers still have a wood/auto shop, or even get to take Home Ec? How many homes even have a proper shop area, or workspace?

3. MoonCake
   September 6th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

   yes it matters, for a couple reasons. first and foremost, we are relying more and more on our machines. if we don't continue to know HOW

4. MoonCake
   September 6th, 2008 at 2:09 pm

   yes it matters, for a couple reasons. first and foremost, we are relying more and more on our machines. if we don’t continue to know HOW they work, we will forget their basic mechanics as generations inevitably dilute new technologies.

   the best example i can use is this:
   my boyfriend needed to change his oil in his car. he and i are usually against big companies and tend to do things for ourselves. he had never changed his oil in his car before because he had always gone to a valvoline or something. we went to his parents' house and happened to mention that his oil needed changing. his dad immediately said "go to wal-mart. they'll do it for $12. they'll do it quicker, and you won't have to get dirty for about the same price as you would if you did it yourself."

   now, he had a point, but the fact is this: if he went to wal-mart (or valvoline or any other place) he would still rely on the convenience of the service without questioning the quality of service or business practices. if EVERYONE went to a garage to have their oil changed (which is a very basic, required maintenance) NOBODY would know how to do it except the people who work in the garages.

   second, a perfect example of why this is important is happening right now as i type this. gas prices have encouraged a great response to seek new energy sources/technologies. it is now in the hands of the private sector (you and me) to be inventive. big oil and the car manufacturers are going to continue to do what they are doing, and are making a big mistake. markets are changing and they are not thinking of new things; they are continuing practices popular in the 1900s and we are suffering because of it. what happens when they COMPLETELY fail and it's COMPLETELY up to us to recharge the economy? the guys/gals from valvoline can only help so much.

   the reason everyone knew how to be mechanical back in the day was because we weren't so much of a service industry as we are now. it used to be mostly agriculture. we can NOT continue to rely on our every-day conveniences because they won't always be there. i'm not trying to be dark or pessimistic, i'm being realistic.

   learn how to change your own oil. learn how your car works. learn how the air conditioning works in your house. learn how your computer works. learn how to use powertools and not-so powered tools. it's not like you have to know how to BUILD a car, or install an air-conditioning unit in your house, or build a house.. but you should at LEAST know where you would start. basic mechanical skills are very important to know, and we should NEVER let them escape our brains.

   btw-- i'm a girl and learned how to change my own oil two years ago. being a girl has nothing to do with it, but how many females can say that? how many MALES can say that? not many, i'm sure.

5. tedd
   September 6th, 2008 at 2:32 pm

   My degree is in computer science, but I have rebuild motors, have helped rewire houses, and generally am interested in fix it type things. I am a curious person and am always interested in how things work. As a kid I use to take things apart and put them back together. In fact I studied computer science for the same exact reason I learned how cars work. I don't like black boxes, I want to know what is going on inside.

   I actually know quite a few fellow computer geeks that are handly with a toolset. I don't think an interest in one negates an interest in the other at all. In fact I think they have the same motivations.

6. Jo
   September 6th, 2008 at 3:20 pm

   Ha! Of course it matters! If you could change your own oil, install your own exhaust, and tune your own car, *I* couldn't charge almost $200/hr to do it for you!!

   MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! >:D

7. Cherry
   September 6th, 2008 at 3:27 pm

   Getting info from AAA for the article stats may be misleading. I know how to change a tire, but I also pay for AAA services. If I'm paying for the services I'm certainly going to use them.

8. Guzzo
   September 6th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

   I was just saying at work the other day how dependent our hospital is upon the computer system. There are no DIY fixes when it crashes.

   Technological advances are making things more challenging for the average DIYer.

9. sparge
   September 6th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

   I agree with Cherry. Personal anecdote:

   This summer I was visiting the Olympic peninsula in Washington State. My wife and I had rented a car for the trip, and wouldn't you know it, we got a flat tire on a side road about 45 minutes from civilization. After locating the jack and lug wrench, I attempted to remove the lug nuts, but man... they were on tight! Probably had been put on with a compressed-air driven wrench. Grudgingly, we called AAA to have someone with either more arm strength (I admit to being a terrible arm-wrestler) or a better wrench come out, but found that we'd have to wait an hour or more for help. With nothing better to do, I kept attempting to loosen the nuts, and eventually succeeded using all the strength and leverage my body could muster (resulting in a sore back for the next couple of days). However, if the wait hadn't been so long I probably would just have let the mechanic handle it.

   Stories like this don't account for a high percentage of flat tire fixes, but the point was that even people capable of fixing a problem might prefer for someone else to do it.

10. Senior Taco
    September 6th, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    Women are loosing their DIY skills Faster than men.

    Name me one place in the country where more than !% of women under 30 know how to make a scratch pie crust.

11. Neatoramawontsendmeapassword
    September 6th, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    I don't think it matters as much as we think it does. We don't all have to be jacks-of-all-trades. If we lose our DIY skills, it just means that we're giving a job to someone else who CAN do those things.

    There are too many things today to DIY anyway... we'd never get anything else done if we had to fix, paint, adjust, replace, build, rebuild, and reinvent all of the items we use on a day-to-day basis!

12. Keeter
    September 6th, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    I think it's extremely important. I'm a lawyer; brain work all week. But on my days of, I like to work with my hands. On my car, I've done alternators, water-pumps, radiators, body work, and with nothing but simple tools. I recently rebuilt my condo kitchen and bathroom from the studs. I can also load up and trouble shoot a computer and darn socks. I think it IS important to know how things work and how to get dirty do the job. It builds character, knowledge, an analytical mind and useful skills. We have become way too lazy and way too dependent on others to do simple and difficult tasks that just a generation or two ago, our fathers and mothers wouldn't have thought twice to do.

13. Sofar
    September 6th, 2008 at 5:46 pm

    I could probably put together a decent roadster given an engine pulled out of an old Honda Civic or something. And all I know about cars I learned from wikipedia, the library, and owning a series of junkers. I can make pie crust, pizza dough, and bread from scratch, too. And I'm pretty handy repairing my clothes myself, though my stitches are crooked.

14. wickethewok
    September 6th, 2008 at 6:39 pm

    Different people do different DIY projects. For example, I built my newest computer, but I don't change my tires. I don't think I should be expected to put on a new tire any more than a mechanic should be expected to be able to install additional RAM.

    Maybe Neatorama is losing their DIY skills by using a publishing/blog engine rather than just writing the whole site in HTML...

15. anathema
    September 6th, 2008 at 7:07 pm

    A good question is how much time do we have to devote to learning these other skills that we don't use often? There are plenty of people working long hours and then devoting more time to raising a family. While it would be nice to know how to perform a wide range of tasks, I doubt that it's feasible for people with little leisure time.

16. joe
    September 6th, 2008 at 8:32 pm

    I'd just like to throw out a couple of things. One, I'm a bit tired of hearing how we (men) are losing this skill, losing that skill. As the fellow posted above, how many women can handle a kitchen the way their grandparents did? Over here, it's about the kimonos. Only the grandmothers and professional shops can help you dress; everyone else has forgotten how.

    Second, it's not that we are losing DIY skills; but rather that the skill sets we need are changing. I live in the city; I ride a bike. I need to know how to set up a computer for work, how to change out HDD and such, far more than change a tire or build a boat. Today's men have just as many skills as yesteryears; but they are in different areas.

    Finally, I'd like to point out that, in relation to cars, we were forced out of it. In the 1980's, I had a large set of tools, and my friend had a small garage, and we'd regularly change oil, plugs, brakes, clutch plates; we even swapped a few engines. Around 1989 the electronic brain became standard in most vehicles; now you required a diagnostic machine (costs around 10k for a cheap one back then) to analyze things and set some of the electrical aspects. Of course only shops had those. Finally, in the mid 90's, the warranty rules took over. My friend brought a toyota over (sorry, can't recall the name) and asked if I would be able to change the oil. We opened the hood and found the engine had a plastic cover shield locked down with non- standard screws; only toyota technicians could release the cover.
    Today, most warrantys require "standard maintenance" as part of the warranty upkeep. Basically, you must take your car (if you have a fairly new one, that is) to a shop on a regular basis (time/distance based) in order to maintain your warranty; and the service must be performed by a "certified technician". Yes, the 18 year old at walmart is certified; we fellows who have been doing it for 30 years are not. Of course no one risks voiding their warranty; so we all go to shops.

    Keep in the mind the "insurance inspection" that is also in many places. Your car, regardless of age, must pass a "safety" check. This costs money, of course, and invariable, something is found to be leaking/worn. You can take your car home, fix it, bring it back, and hope it passes....or the shop can fix it and you can get a guaranteed pass.

    I guess, in my long winded way, I am saying there are many factors in play. I apologize for the length.

    Joe

17. Miss Cellania
    September 6th, 2008 at 8:42 pm

    Where I live, way more than 1% of women know how to make a scratch pie crust. I make quilts, grow a garden, can vegetables, and (lately) move furniture. I can also install a toilet or a light fixture, hang a door, snake a sewer, make soap, and change my own tires. Who else is going to do it? I even built a shed last year!

    Cars used to be a lot easier for owners to repair, back when we had manual transmissions, crank windows, and rack-and-pinion steering. You can't even put a car in neutral these days when the engine isn't running! A catalytic converter makes the exhaust system difficult to replace, and all those computerized sensors require dealer maintenance -even my regular mechanic won't touch those!

    With my first car, I learned to re-attach the exhaust pipe with a coat hanger and repair the distributor cap with duct tape. And of course, change the oil. When the steering wheel fell off, I figured it was time to get a job and buy a slightly newer car.

18. Neatoramawontsendmeapassword
    September 6th, 2008 at 8:51 pm

    @ Miss Cellania:

    "When the steering wheel fell off, I figured it was time to get a job and buy a slightly newer car."

    I hope that didn't happen while you were driving!

19. Baz Anderson
    September 6th, 2008 at 9:58 pm

    I recently called onstar to send someone out and show me how to put the cigarette lighter back in the hole/recharger. God I love technology.

20. David B
    September 6th, 2008 at 10:19 pm

    Every generation has different skills, skills that you need and can use. I know how to change the oil in my car but why would I? The time, the hassle and now you have to find a place to dispose of the used oil and filter. Why do today's kids need to know how to build something using a motorcycle engine? Today's engines are too complicated but if you did and tried to use it anywhere somebody would complain to the authorities and you'd end up with some kind of ticket or court summons. The necessity of yesteryear is not the necessity of today, in other words, today calls for today's skills.

21. Miss Cellania
    September 6th, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    Yeah, it happened while I was driving. I stopped and inserted a screwdriver in the side of the steering column, which got me home. My dad was a bit surprised.

22. Jules
    September 6th, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    Personally, I see this as fairly natural outgrowth of the increase in technological complexity. We rely on more intricate and delicate components, such as transistors, microchips, and computer wielded components, to build our current machines and tools, than even fifty let alone a hundred years ago.

    As we started to use more advanced technology knowledge of the simpler forms (such as wood carving or steam engines) become less and less useful for the lay person to know. I'm unlikely to need those skills as apposed to the less DIY skills of programming, and webpage designing. We learn what we need to in order to manage day to day rather than yesterday.

    Personal machinery maintenance might be down true, and perhaps picking up that would be good, but the ability to make something from scratch isn't really.

    The tools and equipment needed to produce average products, require factories and highly specialized machinery unavailable to the average person, then there is the training to use it. So you're left with either building the entire system all over to make sure it interacts well or giving up and buying a replacement.

    Growing specialization of tasks and roles makes us less knowledgeable about everything but our primary role of which we will do very well and a number of hobbies.

    Simply put: technology is too complex for us to understand enough about everything, to be Do it yourselfers.

23. LV
    September 6th, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
    Specialization is for insects.

    -Robert A. Heinlein

    In other words we should be able to do just about anything. And I could not agree more.

24. Larfin Jackarse
    September 6th, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    Yes I agree.

    Who will join me in learning how to build another Cheops?

25. shecky
    September 6th, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    Specialization is for prosperity. Insects, mind you, can do quite well.

    People have been losing skills since we were living in caves. And probably complaining about it, too. In organized societies, people specialize. This has been a boon to human prosperity. How many people can produce all the food, fuel, etc they need? How many really want to try? It makes much more sense to use your modern skills to get a job and earn money, so you can pay others to do the things you may not want to do or don't know how to do.

26. Buzz
    September 6th, 2008 at 11:52 pm

    I can change a tire. What do I win?

27. renderanything
    September 7th, 2008 at 1:01 am

    At my last job I was conversing with a man who was almost late to make his flight because his tire went flat on the way to the airport. Instead of (makes sense to me) just changing his tire he called his wife. That's right, he had his wife drive out, swap cars with him so that he could drive to the airport while she waited for AAA.
    I'm in my early 20's and here was a family man in his 40's who couldn't do something as simple as change a tire. Even worse was the fact that he had his son in the car to drive it back home after he caught his flight. Now his son misses out on knowing how to change a tire, and countless future generations will go on in ignorance.
    Perhaps I'm a bit biased because I can rebuild engines (successfully) and I can manipulate pixels as well. It's not just my generation that lost something along the way.

28. Miss Cellania
    September 7th, 2008 at 6:40 am

    renderanything, I can understand that. The last two times I changed a tire, it took me about an hour. Jacking up a car is hard with the tiny little jacks they give you these days, and loosening lugs nuts that have been tightened by machine can very difficult. If it's a matter of missing a plane, I'd take the shortcut.

29. MoniA
    September 7th, 2008 at 8:21 am

    I think that we are losing our DIY skills partly because just about everything is designed to be disposable. It's a shame and yes it matters.

30. ted
    September 7th, 2008 at 8:51 am

    I stepped out of work this past winter, and a co-worker had a flat. She had everything out of the trunk, but wasn't sure how to use the jack.

    I'm no arm-wrestler, but I had that tire changed for her in less than 10 minutes. When you can't use your arms, use leg-power. I stood on the tire-iron to loosen it.

    If the aiport guy was in a suit, maybe it wouldn't be so good for him to change the tire. Still, he's a wuss.

31. Daniel Kim
    September 7th, 2008 at 9:14 am

    This summer at church, one of the cars had a flat tire. I called my daughters over (aged 17 and 12), and asked them to change the tire for the owner, who was present. I had shown them how to do it the last time I had a flat tire at home, and they did a pretty good job of it.

    My family was once given a 50-lb sack of wheat. My wife, who likes to do such things, decided to grind some of it into flour to make bread. My co-workers were already surprised that we made bread, and felt that it was a bit over the top to also grind our own flour.

    Coarse and heavy. Oh well.

    Since we were reading from the "Little House" books, my wife and daughters decided to plant some of the wheat in the back yard. When it was finally ripe, I cut it down with a large kitchen knife (sharpening knives is also an essential skill), and we dried it in a backyard shed.

    Hmmm . . . thresh, winnow, grind, bake. A very labor-intensive loaf of bread. The people at work were sure we were crazy (they knew about ME already, but had reserved judgement on my wife).

    Conclusion: It takes just about everything you've got to make a loaf of bread from seeds and dirt. The economies of scale and specialized knowledge of the farming and baking industries make it a lot easier. We're happy to have learned how to do it, but I think we won't do it again.

    When I was growing up, my brother learned how to change the oil and do stuff with the car. I figured that I like to eat, so I learned to cook. I pay JiffyLube to do my oil changes, and they also dispose of used oil properly, unlike some neighbors. I hate doing car stuff so much, I'd gladly pay the oil service twice what they ask to have it done. On the other hand, I eat tasty meals more often than I need to change the oil.

32. Dave
    September 7th, 2008 at 10:08 am

    sparge makes a good point; last winter a neighbor called me & asked for some help in changing a flat. She had tried but couldn't get two of the lugnuts loose, AAA couldn't be there for two hours, and she needed to pick up kids in one hour. I couldn't get one of those nuts loose myself, and ended up twisting two of the pansy-arse original-equipment lug wrenches into uselessness. Even the big 4-way wrench I had twisted slightly trying to get it loose (yes, I'm a big guy; 6'2", 225lbs, and you don't want to pick a fight with me). I ended up letting her use my car to pick up her kids and waited for the AAA guy to show up with an air wrench. Ever since, I always check the lug nuts on my vehicles when I get them back from the shop to make sure I can get them loose with a wrench.

    Being handy and using those DIY skills also ought to be looked at from an economic point of view — would it cost less to pay someone to do the job than I could earn in the same amount of time it would take me to do it myself? If the answer is yes, I usually do it myself, whether I know how to do it or not, and if not, just figure it out as I go. In years past, I didn't make a lot of money, so it was usually easy to determine which way to go, and I built up an impressive skill set in the process. Now I'm earning more, but will still revert to doing it myself fairly often because I'm a cheapskate and I like doing things myself.

    Joe has a point as well; the girls ought to be subject to the same question. My wife bakes bread weekly from flour she mills herself, makes quilts, cooks like it's nobody's business, tends a mean garden (no, I'm not married to Ms. C.) and has taught our kids how to do all that too (even the boys); how many women do you know that can do the same?

    renderanything boils it down well; it all comes down to specialization. No matter how well-versed I am in DIY, I still rely on others for some of the stuff I start with. I can weld, but I can't forge steel from raw ore. I can build a house, but I don't have the skills or tools to provide my own lumber, wiring, flooring or plumbing fixtures from raw materials; there are basics I need to start with, and getting some of those from truly raw materials is way out of my league. My wife has been reading the original "Little House On The Prairie" books to our youngest son lately, and some of the things that Pa Ingalls could do were very impressive. I dare say I would've done well in those days, but it was a hard, hard life. There are a lot of conveniences we take for granted today thanks to the specialization that our modern economy allows us.

    But this topic brings to mind a tangental question... As people become further isolated from the raw materials of life, do they become less likely to believe in an everlasting, all-powerful and omniscient God? It definitely doesn't hold true in all cases, but there seems to be a tendency for people who are surrounded by things made by man to think that's all there is, and that any problem can be overcome technologically.

33. planettom
    September 7th, 2008 at 11:52 am

    As someone noted above, know how to change your tire in broad daylight in a parking lot. Call Triple-A when it's 11 PM at night and you're on the shoulder of a freeway with traffic whizzing by at 70 MPH.

34. Thomas
    September 7th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    Anyone ever seen Idiocracy? Not saying that's where we're going, but it draws more parallels every day.

35. shecky
    September 7th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    It's funny to think that people having "lost" diy skills is somehow a step backward. Modern folks often dabble in such lost skills mostly for recreational purposes, not because survival or success depends on it. Our ancestors had no such luxury. How anyone can think this development is something to lament thing is beyond me.

36. Alex
    September 7th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    I think there's a big difference between DIY skills that you can call upon during an emergency situation (like changing a tire) and those that are not (like making your own bread, or changing oil).

    I'd teach my kids how to change tires - they may need to do it one day, but not how to make your own bread. It's cheaper and easier to go to the store and buy one!

    Re: tight lug nut. It's easier to unscrew an overly tight lug nut if you have a pipe to extend the wrench (the principle of levers) or if you step on the wrench and kick it down little by little (short bursts of torque rather than one long exertion). I once had to change a tire on my way to school and got that done in 10 minutes flat. Made it to my class

37. Neatoramawontsendmeapassword
    September 7th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    "I’d teach my kids how to change tires - they may need to do it one day, but not how to make your own bread. It’s cheaper and easier to go to the store and buy one!"

    The same is true for a lot of things. Ask anyone who sews. It's not always convenient or economically practical. If you need a t-shirt, why would you spend $10 on the fabric and an hour (or more) of your time when you can buy one in the sale bin at Old Navy for two bucks? Sewing is a fine skill to have if you enjoy it, or if you're a fashion designer. But from the standpoint of "need", there isn't really that much point in our Western society.

    Besides... I can do DIY projects that my ancestors couldn't even have dreamed of. Just because it's not physical labour doesn't mean it isn't a skill. I doubt my great-great-grandmother could reinstall an OS and add a couple of sticks of RAM. She'd be completely confused by Photoshop, and wouldn't have any idea how to forward an e-mail. Why are my skills somehow worth less than hers just because they're not as physical? Without the thinkers of our world, we wouldn't enjoy the luxuries we have today. Physical labour is one thing... but mental labours are what lead to progress.

    I highly doubt that, on my deathbed, I'll be lamenting the fact that I never learned how to grow a field of wheat and then bake my own bread. Unless I die of starvation, that is.

38. Snappy
    September 7th, 2008 at 3:08 pm

    FAIL. No way we are loosing our DIY skills.

    Frankly, with the ease of shopping at Home Depot and its ilk, combined with how simple it is to get info on the inter tubes, there is little about my house that I (for example) don't feel comfy fixing. I feel the same about my computers. I bring my car to a mechanic to change the oil, etc., but that is a luxury of choice, I could certainly do that myself. I don't fix my car, either, but heck, I know three people that do, and I'm definitely not running with John Travolta and buddies from 'Grease.'

    Just jump right in is my motto, and I don't regard myself as particularly handy. Most people I know feel the same way.

    Look, when I was a kid (I'm forty), if you wanted to fix your plumbing you had to get the supplies at a plumbing supply store, which was a desk in front of a warehouse. You had to ask for the exact parts that you wanted at the desk, and sometimes they would not sell to you unless you had a contractor's license, or were a licensed plumber. 'Same with electrical, etc. Plus, you basically had to know someone who had some experience to show you the ropes, because it was very hard to get the info 'cold.' Heck, now you can absorb a lot just walking through the store and examining the products.

    I've been thinking that people are handier than ever in all sorts of ways, so the title of this article came as a shock to me, frankly.

39. eric c
    September 7th, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    I called AAA today to change a flat tire on my truck that was parked in front of my house. I've never had to do it before so I figured it was the perfect opportunity to learn. I couldn't even come close to removing the wheel with the supplied tool, so I called AAA. I was a little embarrassed but the guy said it's common. He got it but even he had a bit of a hard time with much better tools. He said that on some cars he can't get the wheel off at all and ends up towing the vehicle. He said it is especially difficult on Suburbans and vehicles with "air suspensions", whatever those are.

40. Tony LaRocca
    September 7th, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    I think there's been a push lately for young people to be more and more dependent. "24 is the new 18" and all that crap.

41. mojojojo
    September 8th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    i'm a car nut, and enjoy doing all my own work... and i'm a woman. i'm continually amazed by the men who have no idea what goes on under the hood of a car. i remember one time i was checking my oil, and you should have seen the panicked looks on the faces of the men coming out of my office building... "ah a damsel in distress i presume. should i offer to help? but i can't! omg, what to do, what to do?" lol

42. andyhCO
    September 9th, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    Ok so here is my 2
    I am an eagle scout and a digital professional. Putting in ram is no more a diy skill as screwing in a light bulb. It only goes in one way. Scouting skills should be required for boys and girls in school. My troop built a 25 foot tower with wood and rope (no metal!) every year at summer camp. That is a useful diy skill, as is knife sharpening. Modern PC skills are all good, but you need to dig a little deeper to see the real skill. Replacing surface mount components on a board? Re-purposing audio gear, circuit bending? Car engine swaps. How bout the open source car ECU supports any style engine (except Wankel's I think)

    links to some things i think are cool
    http://forums.openecu.org/viewforum.php?f=15&sid=0e63d62e7dfcc443b68b0 4d932494e0d

    http://www.hackszine.com/blog/archive/2007/09/recycle_an_old_floppy_co nnecto.html

    http://www.theworkshop.ca/energy/dirt_e/4/4.htm

43. My Little Blog
    April 22nd, 2009 at 1:36 am

    really?how come?thanks for sharing it.

44. California Orange Country Lawyer
    June 25th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

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