Real people have ASD , even famous individuals, each one of us born unique, which type are you ? - asplanet.info
http://asplanet.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36&Item id=73

But Joe Barbiaux if you were humble, you wouldn't say you knew everything. You would say you knew quite a few things.

There i poked a huge hole in your logic.

And DANG they can do amazing stuff

I can say these things because I know everything. genius and humble--damn few of us left.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Daniel_Pomerleau_Free_Energy_Co ils

One of the many people who have seen him in action has a unique perspective on how he does this. It parallels some of the other savant experiences in some ways. It is as if they are able to "see" something ordinary people do not. After learning about Daniel's unique abilities, go to:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5285.msg123645.html#msg123645

(To read Reply #290), abou this perspective on savant abilities.

From the savants, the implications for human learning and intelligence are important. But with Pomerleau, the implications for all of humanity are truly significant. Using available non-polluting energy sources directly would be a tremendous boon to mankind, and understanding how Pomerleau does this could be the greatest contibution that studying savant psychology could make to us all.

My only point here is that these people are not geniuses.

That is all.

I did state that they have remarkable abilities and facilities.

And you are quite right they do have a place in finding out how the mind works.

But that work will be done ON people like this, not BY people like this.

As they are ...NOT geniuses.

To engage in an argument where the only stated point is that these people are in no way geniuses, and then to try and switch that topic for one that you like better after the event is not an argument.

Some fine sentiments about how they can help us understand the wonders of the mind or some such is to atempt to derail an argument.

You might as well hold up a puppy and invite people to go Awww and pat it's head.

As it has nothing to do with the matter in hand but serves to make you look like a NICE GUY.

see he's a good guy!...he's gotta be right, he has a Puppy.

Nobody with a puppy could be a bad guy.

Yes my point is not nice, these people are broken to a point where they neeed an enormous amount of care, and my saying that in no way changes their situations or ameliorates the predicaments of their families or care workers. And I am all infavour for these people to be cared for an indeed trwasured, but the matter of them being Whizz bang super geniuses is facile wrong headed and self serving. It makes lazy thinkers happy to think that they all have their 90 min after school sub rainman special and have basicallyy happy lives thinking their big thoughts.

Things are just not that nice in the real world. And telling these poor souls what totally special snow flakes they are really does nothing beyond salve a little twinge of discomfort in the veiwer not the veiwed.

they don't care.

Can't you look at this from a neuropsychological perspective? It's particularly interesting how a person can develop these amazing abilities after an aquired brain injury. Perhaps we all have the potential to develop these sorts of abilities if only we were able to strengthen certain connections in the brain.

There is so much we can learn from these people about the different types of memory, perception, and the connections in our brains. They can help us to better understand how the most mysterious (and important) organ in our body works.

I'm not arguing the genious point, but to say they are useless is really ignoring the whole picture. One of the best ways that has enabled us to learn about the brain and pioneer important brain surgery techniques is by studying people with cognitive defecits and aquired brain injuries. Who's to say that we can't learn from people who have heightened abilities?

Take patient Phineas Gage, a famous case of a man who, after an aquired brain injury developed severe behavioural problems and changes in personality. His case gave rise to the idea (and eventual confirmation) that the frontal lobe plays a large role in behaviour and personality.

Well, fine, you are welcome to critisice me for double spacing, but I do it for legibility. My own not yours so much.

I have always typed in a double space manner, and it's not like by doing so I use all the paper.

I don't think i like to dominate the comments section, and if you feel that double spacing succesfully does so then that speaks volumes about how you fell about your own arguments.

Man defeated in debate by double spacing.

BUt i digress.

I didn't say all autistic people were useless, I said that a lot of them are. They can not apply themselves to anything, they are without use.

It is not meant as a pejorative, but a simple statement.

And Asperger's is some times called functional autism, but it's not really autism, on a sliding scale it is to autism what losing a hand is to quadraplegic paralysis.

Yes, i take your point about the fish and Kant and all.

The thing of it is that the fish and the savants that are seeing in umnkown colours even if they are, means nothing.

Information is not information unless it is shared, or can be shared.

And as even in a best case scenario that all these savants live lives filled with wonderful information that only they can perceive....so what?

It is useless.

Genius pivots on processign and using information.

There is no use, ipso facto pepto bismol it is use-less.

not genius.

Again , sorry for double spacing, I do it because my eye sight isn't that great and single spacing looks like noise.

You know not all autistic people are "useless" as you put it. Daniel Tammet for example has Aspergers (occasionally referred to as functional autism). He can certainly bathe himself, and do everything else "normal" people can for that matter. He is also capable of abstract thought and interpreting this "information" in creative ways. He is just different from you and I in that he is socially awkward, has difficulty expressing and interpreting emotions, is set in his ways, has an extremely high IQ (a measure that takes into account a broad range of skills related with intelligence), and pursue his areas of interest with an all consuming passion. If a person with Aspergers is able to choose a career where they can use the excessive knowledge they have gathered over the years in pursuing their special areas of interest, they frequently contribute a great deal to society.

Immanuel Kant talked about phenomenon: the world as we see it, and noumenon: the world as it is, or the thing in itself. As humans, we have many limitations and biases. We are restricted to perceiving the world only in the way our biology allows us to. For example, we can only see a very small part of the electromagnetic spectrum, but some fish can see a much larger portion of that spectrum. In other words, some animals can perceive colours that we will never know or comprehend.

These savants obviously see the world in very different ways that we do. Sure, they are still restricted by their own personal phenomenon, but to say that they are useless is a fallacy. They have much to teach us if we’re willing to open our eyes.

"Bla bla bla.

I like to dominate the comments section of Neatorama.

Bla bla bla.

Double spacing takes up more room and allows me to more successfully dominate the comments section of Neatorama."

You know not all autistic people are "useless" as you put it. Daniel Tammet for example has asperger's (occasionally refered to as functional autism). He can certainly bathe himself, and do everything else "normal" people can for that matter. He is also capable of abstract thought and interpreting this "information" in creative ways. He is just different from you and I in that he is socially akward, set in his ways, has an extremely high IQ (a measure that takes into account a broad range of skills related with intelligence), and persues his areas of interest with an all consuming passion.

You have my total and unstinting apology.

Normally I try to be more thorough about such things.

You have my sincere apology. Shall endeavour to be be better in future.

@Violet,

as much as I can see your intent, it actually says nothing.

These people are nowhere in the "constellation" of genius.

They are quite extraordinary, and they cause quite nice feelings in people, hell even in me.

But that does not mean genius.

No more than Google is a genius.

It is an apparatus to retrieve or access information, it in no way interprets information.

Kim Peek can retrieve any item of info he's read in his life.

But he can in no way understand the information beyond it's set level of information.

JFK was assasinated in....

The exact location time and weather bureau information is nothing to him beyond stats and repetition..

It is regurgitation, it is not digestion.

He could no more interpret this than he could being told that a squirel jumped onto a power transformer, or that Pringles have a new flavour.

It is all just information.

Genius is the facility to take information and interpret it in absolutely new ways.

To see that which can exist between information.

Information processing at it's basics is the capacity to take thesis antithesis and make a synthesis.

That is waht any of us do in any day.

You want Mexican, Polx wants Indian but Violet is ok with either.

So waht do we eat?

Ok that is overly simlified, but this would Stymie these people.

Alright enough from me.

Suffice to say, genius is a very different thing.

It may please you or salve your feelings to attributee this to them but that has so much more to do with your world view than anything to do with these people.

Also, I don't care beyond what I say, as my indifference to these savants is immaterial, they don't care that they are not genuiuses or functional people, omnly you have made an emotional investment in their place in the constellation of genius.

quite quite pointlessly.

Yours Sincerely from the ninty-ninth percentile.

(which means as little as savantism incidentally.)

Isn't Archimedes the dude famous for shouting Eureka! in the bathtub?

And Stephen Hawkings (people call him a genius) can't bathe himself, although that's due to physical limitations rather than mental.

I've been told I'm an idiot savant, just without the savant part.