Pregnant Man Gave Birth to a Baby Girl

1. caitlin13
   July 4th, 2008 at 7:28 pm

   Good for him.

2. grytpype
   July 4th, 2008 at 7:42 pm

   Isn't it obvious that this "man" isn't a man at all but a woman. The birth is kind of a giveaway. The title of this story should be "woman gives birth."

3. CheeseDuck
   July 4th, 2008 at 8:02 pm

   That would be boring, grytpype.

4. JMM
   July 4th, 2008 at 8:05 pm

   Lots of women who've had masectomies have given birth. No big deal.

   I would think that referring to this woman as a "man" because she's had her breasts removed is terribly offensive to women who have lost their breasts to cancer.

5. ted
   July 4th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

   JMM. Do a little research first, dummy.

   I actually find it offensive that they would label their child as a "girl". How do they know what gender that child will eventually identify with?

   We should avoid labels and refer to all persons under the age of five as gender-neutral, until they have the opportunity to self-identify.

6. Anthony
   July 4th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

   "Woman without boobies and taking hormones for facial hair gives birth."

7. Carl
   July 4th, 2008 at 8:26 pm

   "We should avoid labels and refer to all persons under the age of five as gender-neutral, until they have the opportunity to self-identify."

   I just wanted to repeat that so everyone can read it twice and see how insane that actually is.

   Errr. IT'S A WOMAN. Knock those chromosomes around a bit, huh? No. Still a woman.

8. carolion
   July 4th, 2008 at 8:34 pm

   congratulations to him and his wife!

9. MogMog
   July 4th, 2008 at 8:36 pm

   I'm sick of this media bullcrap; it's not a man.

   I feel sorry for the child too, being brought into the world in a media frenzy of gross stupidity!

   Enough now, for the childs sake let this unfortunate media whore slip back into obscurity!

10. anonymous
    July 4th, 2008 at 8:50 pm

    gender can sometimes be skewed -- females with atypically high levels of testosterone, babies born with two genetalia (one of each sex) and so forth.

    but if any baby animal is evaluated in terms of its gender, a female is a female and there's no way around that. human animals are really no different in terms of identifying gender.

    society does impose gender roles and it would be better not to limit anyone's potential based on their sex. sexual orientation is not something that fits into tidy boxes such as bi, straight, gay, etc.

    a child should be given all the support and care during development including the right to determine their own orientation. but one cannot choose their sex any more than one can choose their race, or height. if someone sees themselves as a man, though they have all the sexual characteristics of a female, they can have their gender REASSIGNED.

    transgendered males and females are just that -- transgendered. a transgendered female is not a typical female, nor is that person a typical male. the primary sexual characteristics of a male include an XY chromosome pair, a set of testicals and a penis. secondary male characteristics include facial and body hair and so forth.

    when a genetic female develops some secondary male sexual characteristics, through the use of hormones, as well as cosmetic appearance of primary sexual characteristics through surgery, the individual is something of a gender chimera -- neither male (due to the lacking of male sexual reproductive organs and chromosomes) and no longer completely female (due to an abundance of testosterone and cosmetic verisimilitude with males).

    but they remain a transgendered female while functioning in society as a male.

11. Cori
    July 4th, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    The prevalence of transphobia in the comments sickens me. I just said to my friend yesterday that Mr. Beatie was due soon. I've followed his story. I admire him so much for having the strength to both be openly trans and to have a child when his wife couldn't. It really is a beautiful thing. I hope the best for him and his family. :]

12. Thomas
    July 4th, 2008 at 9:20 pm

    Wait... not a Caesarean? Man? Did a baby come out of his penis? This throws my whole view of the world into question.

13. Tim Giachetti
    July 4th, 2008 at 9:26 pm

    The child has 2 parents, which in this world is a rare and good thing.
    Good for them, and the child being raised without being fed skewed views of people.

14. ted
    July 4th, 2008 at 9:35 pm

    Geez, Carl. Do I have to explain every comment I make around here? Obviously, my humour is way too subtle for the room.

15. filangieri
    July 4th, 2008 at 9:41 pm

    Just a niggling point, there is a difference between gender and biological sex. If this biological female chooses to identify as a male, then I believe we should respect his wishes. But to impose _our_ view that his X chromosome means his gender is fixed as female, IMHO, is wrong.

16. Anthony
    July 4th, 2008 at 10:18 pm

    Filangieri, if I have to call her a man, everyone has to refer to me as a dragon. That's how I identify myself.

17. violet
    July 4th, 2008 at 10:57 pm

    Then a dragon you are. Gender is a construct that speaks to how we feel, who we feel we are. This man was born a biological female and always felt that his true gender was male. He changed everything in his life and went through what was no doubt a great deal of trauma to live as he felt. It was not a publicity prank, or a whim, or an attempt to insult any of you. If he could skipped the whole transgendered thing, I'm sure he would have, as it obviously draws a lot of hate.

    He now lives as a man, feels like a man, and common sense says to refer to him as one.

    The fact that he utilized his still-existing biological organs to create a family doesn't change his gender or his right to define it.

    Honestly, aren't there better things to hate on in this world than people who are different than you, who define themselves differently? It does not seem like a tall order to respect their choices and leave them alone.

18. Erin
    July 4th, 2008 at 10:58 pm

    i really don't understand why this is such a *huge* freaking news story. big deal!
    i say bravo to mr. beatie and family, but what the hell is all the hype over? idgi.

19. Wesley
    July 4th, 2008 at 11:58 pm

    True that this person may choose to call himself a man or a woman. That's not in question.

    The hype centers on the person's gender as it relates to the pregnancy, as though this were a biological miracle.

    Biologically, however, this is a female. As such, there is nothing amazing about the pregnancy. No more so than my getting breast implants, shaving my beard, calling myself a woman and ending up in the papers for producing sperm.

    Live and let live, but let's stop purporting this to be the impossible made possible.

20. Evil Pundit
    July 5th, 2008 at 12:09 am

    What's the point of deciding to identify as a man, if you then go and do something that only a woman can do?

    This person seems to want to eat the cake and have it too.

21. Shea
    July 5th, 2008 at 12:21 am

    All well and good but what would be the long-term effects of the testosterone therapy on the baby?

22. Andrew32
    July 5th, 2008 at 12:25 am

    ew.

23. Celeste
    July 5th, 2008 at 1:12 am

    I also don't really see what the huge deal is. I think it's interesting, and was clever of Mr. Beatie to retain his female reproductive organs so as to be able to do this, but there's nothing super miraculous or bizarre about it any moreso than if they were to have some random unrelated woman be a surrogate mother. If anything, *that* would be bizarre (yet totally accepted).

    As filangieri mentioned, sex and gender are two very different things, a fact of which most people seem to be blissfully unaware. It's really not that complicated, though. Nor is it that hard to respect those whose sex and gender may not overlap exactly perfectly as you think they should.

24. Neatoramawontsendmeapassword
    July 5th, 2008 at 2:01 am

    Congratulations to them! And what a lucky little girl. She's going to have parents who actually wanted her enough to brave all of this flack. And she'll probably be raised in a lot more tolerant and understanding environment than so many of the people who have commented on this thread.

25. Mokuwai
    July 5th, 2008 at 3:04 am

    For all of you who say "he's" brave for going through all of this and enduring all of the negativity. They are the ones making this whole thing into a media circus. If they wanted to have a child, fine. however introducing themselves into the spotlight in such a way is the only reason they received so much flack. I feel sorry for this child the same as I feel sorry for any child thrust into the media spotlight and used for a political statement. Had they lived their lives and had a child the same as everyone else and made a wonderful introduction to life with loving family and friends, the child would be so much better for it.
    I just pray for the child's sake they don't continue with this Jerry Springer episode for too long.

26. Natascha
    July 5th, 2008 at 3:05 am

    Evil Pundit: If I remember correctly, his wife is infertile. Back when he was a she, they found out about the other's infertility, so Thomas didn't have his womb removed, because they still wanted a child.

    I could be wrong, but I think that's what happened.

27. Booger
    July 5th, 2008 at 4:52 am

    Did he fuck himself?

28. Evilbeagle
    July 5th, 2008 at 5:41 am

    I think that the majority of people identify with the gender that they are, so going all gender neutral until they decide for themselves is a bit extreme. That's not saying that if a child is not comfortable with their gender that we should discourage them, but I do feel that most people are doing it right as they are.

    As for this particular birth. Good for them. I wish them all the happiness in the world. However, I have to agree that it's not that big a deal. If he had been born a man and had a kid as a man, then I would be impressed.

29. su.wei
    July 5th, 2008 at 5:46 am

    like Cori, i was shocked how many people seemed offended by this.

30. Alex Fear
    July 5th, 2008 at 7:24 am

    Biologically I was born with index fingers, but I choose to define them as lazer-beams!!

    Now I can just point and go blam! Furthermore no-one has a right to question or be offended by my digit-assignment.

31. Lea
    July 5th, 2008 at 9:07 am

    I'm hardly offended or appalled by this. My concern lies with the child and how she will have to deal with all of this in the future. She's a baby, never asked for any of the media attention or the predjudice but she will eventually have to deal with it. I think the people who are predjudiced against the parents should stop and think of the child who has no control over her situation. That said, people should also consider the fact that she is lucky to have two parents that love her very much and will be there to support her. That's not as common as we'd like to think.
    There are so many things that are more important to worry about other than a transgendered person having a baby. People are starving, fighting, poor, homeless...and here people are getting upset over something that is the result of love.
    Sorry for the corn, but really...think about it...

32. Evert de Ruiter
    July 5th, 2008 at 9:28 am

    Ahh man, that picture looks so gross.

33. Dave
    July 5th, 2008 at 9:54 am

    Not so neat, and hardly even news. Offended? Nah. Just a little more disgusted with the way bizarre and unnatural behavior gets celebretized in this country.

    Too bad it's a holiday weekend; probably take a while for this post to get the burial it so terribly deserves.

34. lunacy
    July 5th, 2008 at 9:57 am

    I'm not offended that this person wants to be a parent, have a family or look like a man.

    What offends me is the twisting of language into lies that we are expected to believe because of some psychobabble and self esteem issues.

    This person can call herself anything she wants. I knew a nut who thought he was an alien deposited on Earth to save the world. But he wasn't. He was a nut.

    The media and society should not indulge these nuts.

    Reality is that this person was born a female and no amount of hormones or language twisting can change that. Her chromosomes are female, therefore she is female. A female in extreme drag. (Do they call it drag when it's a woman?)

    Gender is not a choice, it is a fact of nature. As are all the natural mutations between one gender and the other.

    How we behave within that gender is another matter. And how we, as a society, treat or judge people who behave differently is an important issue as well.

    This woman's choice isn't one I would have made. And that's okay with me. Obviously, she's free to do this and the technology is there to help her.

    But please, let's be honest with the language.

    A woman who looks like a man gave birth to a beautiful baby girl.

    I wish them and the child luck.

    I wish we would all learn that labels and language is there to identify things and express thoughts. Not twist reality.

    L

35. alison
    July 5th, 2008 at 10:24 am

    Oh give me a break, they're just pronouns. How can you say you're tolerate of others' decisions to live their lives as they feel they need to but say they need to maintain the labels they were sometimes wrongly given?
    Have you ever heard a transgendered person describe the struggle they feel realizing they're trapped in a body they don't feel they belong in? It's heart-wrenching. I hope all your children find themselves in similar circumstances so you can feel front-row the pain people go through trying to be happy in their ill-fitting skin.

    On another note, I don't think this guy had any reason to broadcast his story all over the news and milk it on every talk show for so long, I think it was unnecessary and just made a spectacle of the transgendered community.

36. alright
    July 5th, 2008 at 10:26 am

    I am surprised how many people think the best way to deal with confused people is to coddle them. We, as a society, have become so afraid of hurting someone's feelings that we treat people like children instead of owning up to reality.

    My child can put on a cape and pretend he's superman, and I might indulge him for a while. But if he's 30 and still running around with a cape? Then I think it's time for reality to set in. No more pretending.

    Let's start treating these people like adults.

37. Soran Suleiman
    July 5th, 2008 at 10:44 am

    There are a lot of words on my tongue but my fingers won't type them.

    People what is wrong with being a female? Is it sign of being weak? Is it a shame? Is it a sin? Why should we change our gender?

    I also would like to repeat the following sentence:

    "I would think that referring to this woman as a “man” because she’s had her breasts removed is terribly offensive to women who have lost their breasts to cancer."

38. lunacy
    July 5th, 2008 at 11:18 am

    Alison, I have heard transgendered people describe their trouble. Many times.

    I sympathize. Have you ever heard one who is still troubled even after their alterations?

    I have. Many times. Every time I do I can't help but think that gender isn't the only problem they are facing.

    And it is heart wrenching. I don't enjoy other people's pain.

    And while you slam me for being intolerant, I note that you are so tolerant of my fondness for truth that you wish agony on my children. The epitome of tolerance! As is often the case with those who feign moral superiority.

    Fortunately, your wish has been denied. One grown son who is quite happy in his manly skin.

    You want me to accept a falsehood.

    I want you to accept a fact.

    Eliminate the shame of being gender confused. Or gender flexible. Eliminate the shame of being one gender over another. Then you needn't worry over misused pronouns. There would be no agony involved. Folk could simply declare themselves flexible. Or confused. Or in extreme drag.

    I see no conflict between being honest and being sympathetic.

39. simply_kali
    July 5th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    I really don't care what he calls himself. If I like someone, I like them. If I don't like someone, I don't. I don't make my decisions based on whether or not the person is transgender, homosexual, or any other reason. I get along with who I get along with because I enjoy their company. End of story. If someone prefers to be refered to as a "he" instead of a "she", then it doesn't matter.

    "I would think that referring to this woman as a “man” because she’s had her breasts removed is terribly offensive to women who have lost their breasts to cancer."

    Seriously? Number one, we don't refer to him as a man just because his breasts were removed. We refer to him as a man because that is how he prefers it. Number two, have you asked any women who have had their breasts removed if they find this offensive? I asked my grandmother what she thought. She lost both her breasts to cancer. She thought I was nuts! After all, they are two completely different situations! One is a lifestyle choice, the other is from sickness.

40. ted
    July 5th, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    I think the whole point behind the removing breasts comment is that you can disfigure the body as much as you want, but that doesn't make this woman a man.

    Women have babies all the time. This one just prefers not to think of herself as a woman. It's pretty silly, but that's between her and the therapist.

41. JC
    July 5th, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    That woman is sick. She suffers media attention.

42. WordyGrrl
    July 5th, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    I'd wager a lot of the nastier comments are from people who've never personally known or befriended a transgender person. The ones I've known, both MTF (male to female), said it's not like getting tattoo or some other body mod. In their minds, it's a birth defect that can be corrected so their bodies will match the gender they know themselves to be.

    Also, I used to work with a woman who had Frasier Syndrome. She was born with all the female parts, but had XY chromosomes -- making her genetically male. She wasn't a transgender person. She considered herself all female and did not look like, nor want to be surgerized into a man.

43. slipper
    July 5th, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    only a woman could give birth without a caesarian. obviously. You see, if a woman wants to become a man, she is still actually both. A man who becomes a woman by surgery, could never give birth. There is a big difference! Now why would a woman who wants to become a man, want to give birth...being that she removed her breasts??? Baby must me shocked..probably has ptsd.

44. andrew
    July 5th, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    Ugh. This and the "Murder or self defense" thread make me feel like some sort of spectator to my own country.

    I've known a few transgendered people. Sure, I sometimes accidentally slip up on the pronouns, but I attempt to respect their wishes. I figure getting the wrong pronoun on a transgendered person would be like people calling me "she" or "her" my whole life, even though I'm male. It would be distracting, saddening and infuriating.

    And for the women who see this as some sort of hatred of women (Soran Suleiman, for one), you could not be further from the truth. I'm left-handed. I've always known this; One could say I identify as a left handed person. This doesn't mean I find something wrong with the right hand, or right handed people, it's just something in my brain setting up a random preference to one side or another.

    On the other (murder) post, a commenter from Canada said he felt like he was looking at an alien planet. I completely understand his feelings. It's an odd feeling so out of place in my country of birth, and on the 4th of July weekend, too.

45. Jamie
    July 6th, 2008 at 1:07 am

    So... if a homely woman who looks like a man (and there are millions of them all over the world) gives birth nobody bats an eye. But when a woman who's been surgially altered to look like a man gives birth everybody sits up and takes notice..?

    Our tabloid culture is out of control.

    P.T.Barnum would be proud...

46. dan0
    July 6th, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    vagina=female. the headline should read woman gives birth to baby.

47. the lord
    July 7th, 2008 at 11:43 am

    title (creepy women gives birth)

48. Nat
    July 7th, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    It is not a man.

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