Comments on: When Is Someone Dead or Dead Enough? http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/ The Neat Side of the Web Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:54:29 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: L http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-493728 L Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:09:31 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/#comment-493728 I bet Zack Dunlap is glad his doctors weren't so quick with their scalpels. It's stories like those that make one question what "dead" really is. Maybe there needs to be better criteria or something. I realize that doctors want those organs while they're still "fresh", but how can they really say for sure if someone is going to recover or not? Strange things happen all the time. I bet Zack Dunlap is glad his doctors weren't so quick with their scalpels. It's stories like those that make one question what "dead" really is. Maybe there needs to be better criteria or something. I realize that doctors want those organs while they're still "fresh", but how can they really say for sure if someone is going to recover or not? Strange things happen all the time.

]]> By: kansasgirl http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-492833 kansasgirl Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:20:59 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/#comment-492833 I called my parents during the whole Terry Schiavo thing and reminded them that if I'm brain dead they should pull the plug. My mom's response was basically, "well, duh." I called my parents during the whole Terry Schiavo thing and reminded them that if I'm brain dead they should pull the plug. My mom's response was basically, "well, duh."

]]> By: NeuroGirl http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-492251 NeuroGirl Fri, 28 Mar 2008 05:13:14 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/#comment-492251 The editing here was pure spin. The actual article was more of an examination of the different sides than an outright assertion that brain dead isn't dead enough for organ donation. The editing here was pure spin. The actual article was more of an examination of the different sides than an outright assertion that brain dead isn't dead enough for organ donation.

]]> By: emptyminded http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-491551 emptyminded Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:15:03 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/#comment-491551 What is so bad about death that people are willing to be kept alive by a machine for as long as possible? And what is so great about eventual death by pneumonia, sepsis, or multiple organ failure? I've seen it plenty of times and it's not pretty. For my part, I'm looking forward to the afterlife. What is so bad about death that people are willing to be kept alive by a machine for as long as possible? And what is so great about eventual death by pneumonia, sepsis, or multiple organ failure?

I've seen it plenty of times and it's not pretty.

For my part, I'm looking forward to the afterlife.

]]> By: andrew http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-491486 andrew Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:12:51 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/#comment-491486 "There is nobody in the world of philosophy and bioethics who thinks brain death is a coherent concept," says Truog. well, that's a bold statement... I bet I could find (at least) some philosophy professors at the nearby university that think that's a good measure of death. "There is nobody in the world of philosophy and bioethics who thinks brain death is a coherent concept," says Truog.

well, that's a bold statement... I bet I could find (at least) some philosophy professors at the nearby university that think that's a good measure of death.

]]> By: Xinavera http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-491482 Xinavera Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:56:04 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/#comment-491482 Amen, Bean. I'd love to see the credentials of this "medical ethicist". My guess is that he's some sort of religious fundamentalist trying to bring back the good old days of the Terry Schiavo idiocy. If my organs can be used to help someone else, pull the plug, even if I'm not technically all the way dead. Amen, Bean. I'd love to see the credentials of this "medical ethicist". My guess is that he's some sort of religious fundamentalist trying to bring back the good old days of the Terry Schiavo idiocy.

If my organs can be used to help someone else, pull the plug, even if I'm not technically all the way dead.

]]> By: Dutch http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-491461 Dutch Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:18:47 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/#comment-491461 A recent story of a brain dead person coming back to life... http://www.woai.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=76901869-2a7e-4e9a-ba69-caa4157319be A recent story of a brain dead person coming back to life...

http://www.woai.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=76901869-2a7e-4e 9a-ba69-caa4157319be

]]> By: Tempscire http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-491457 Tempscire Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:14:49 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/#comment-491457 Ugh. I can't believe someone's conflating the brain dead issue by referring to a person still having a functioning hypothalamus. <i>That's not the part that has any of the person in it.</i> It does all the automatic processes; there are no memories there, no personality... if everything but the brain stem regions are dead, that person is gone in every way but body. Ugh. I can't believe someone's conflating the brain dead issue by referring to a person still having a functioning hypothalamus. That's not the part that has any of the person in it. It does all the automatic processes; there are no memories there, no personality... if everything but the brain stem regions are dead, that person is gone in every way but body.

]]> By: rohin http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-491432 rohin Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:38:49 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/#comment-491432 I would like to see a reference for the brain dead woman giving birth. There is more than one misnomer in the article. DCD procedures, as they're called in the States, are only planned when irreversible and terminal damage has been done. Most tend to come from ITU. On occasion, an intended donor's heart does not stop beating and organ retrieval does not go ahead. I have never heard of any physician doing anything to speed up the process of death - in my experience. Non-heart-beating donor kidneys are associated with higher rates of acute rejection and delayed function. I think it's inflammatory and incorrect to suggest that not taking organs from someone with some remaining activity in the most primitive parts of the brain, i.e. the brainstem and areas that regulate basal functions, is equal to 'saving' them. These people will not recover to a normal state, nor even consciousness. It's an interesting and difficult ethical debate. I would like to see a reference for the brain dead woman giving birth.

There is more than one misnomer in the article.

DCD procedures, as they're called in the States, are only planned when irreversible and terminal damage has been done. Most tend to come from ITU. On occasion, an intended donor's heart does not stop beating and organ retrieval does not go ahead. I have never heard of any physician doing anything to speed up the process of death - in my experience.

Non-heart-beating donor kidneys are associated with higher rates of acute rejection and delayed function.

I think it's inflammatory and incorrect to suggest that not taking organs from someone with some remaining activity in the most primitive parts of the brain, i.e. the brainstem and areas that regulate basal functions, is equal to 'saving' them. These people will not recover to a normal state, nor even consciousness.

It's an interesting and difficult ethical debate.

]]> By: PJ http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-491431 PJ Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:38:14 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/#comment-491431 If I'm brain dead I'm brain dead, pull the plug. If I'm brain dead I'm brain dead, pull the plug.

]]> By: bean http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-491338 bean Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:11:29 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/#comment-491338 Referring to yourself as a "medical ethicist" is a great way to identify yourself as an attention whore. Do they think it's more fair to leave someone in a vegetative state for decades on end, sucking money out of their family's or the government's pockets and not getting better? Referring to yourself as a "medical ethicist" is a great way to identify yourself as an attention whore. Do they think it's more fair to leave someone in a vegetative state for decades on end, sucking money out of their family's or the government's pockets and not getting better?

]]> By: oakling http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-491326 oakling Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:00:10 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/27/when-is-someone-dead-or-dead-enough/#comment-491326 I'd like to see outcomes. How many of the patients who have functioning hypothalamuses have ever regained further brain function? How many of those "up to 20%"? I'd like to see outcomes. How many of the patients who have functioning hypothalamuses have ever regained further brain function? How many of those "up to 20%"?

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