Comments on: Close call for an A320 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/ The Neat Side of the Web Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:14:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: luke65 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-528679 luke65 Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:16:23 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-528679 bellissimo e interessante sito. BRAVI||| bellissimo e interessante sito. BRAVI|||

]]> By: Patrick Smith http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-472767 Patrick Smith Sat, 08 Mar 2008 01:47:40 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-472767 I'm an airline pilot and air travel writer. Here is my "official" statement on the Lufthansa video: First off, videos like this can be misleading. From my perspective, the approach doesn't look terribly unstable until right at the end. Until that point, the into-the-crosswind crab, while it might appear awkward, or even radical, is actually the right technique and not terribly drastic, as these things go. Reportedly the wind was within the airplane's published limits for crosswind performance. That's not to say it wasn't gusty and uncomfortable, but it was legal and well within the plane's capabilities. As it prepares to touchdown, however, the jet seems to sink rapidly, then rolls sharply as the crab is taken out. That's where it all gets messy, scraping the wing and veering off the runway. Why, exactly, this happened is impossible to determine without having been there. There has been some discussions about why the 24 year-old first officer and not the captain was at the controls during the approach. But if the windspeed was within limits and conditions not terribly dodgy, there wouldn't necessarily have been reason to have the captain fly the approach. Alas, it seems that he loss control while aligning for touchdown. Lack of skill/experience on part of the first officer? That's a tough call to make from afar, but possibly. Several people have described the incident as a "near crash," or "almost crash," etc. I would not go that far. To strike a wingtip and veer from the runway is serious, and it's hard to say what might have happened had the go-around not been executed. But I would not describe the incident as a near-catastrophe. PS I’m an airline pilot and air travel writer. Here is my “official” statement on the Lufthansa video:

First off, videos like this can be misleading. From my perspective, the approach doesn’t look terribly unstable until right at the end. Until that point, the into-the-crosswind crab, while it might appear awkward, or even radical, is actually the right technique and not terribly drastic, as these things go. Reportedly the wind was within the airplane’s published limits for crosswind performance. That’s not to say it wasn’t gusty and uncomfortable, but it was legal and well within the plane’s capabilities.

As it prepares to touchdown, however, the jet seems to sink rapidly, then rolls sharply as the crab is taken out. That’s where it all gets messy, scraping the wing and veering off the runway. Why, exactly, this happened is impossible to determine without having been there.

There has been some discussions about why the 24 year-old first officer and not the captain was at the controls during the approach.
But if the windspeed was within limits and conditions not terribly dodgy, there wouldn’t necessarily have been reason to have the captain fly the approach. Alas, it seems that he loss control while aligning for touchdown. Lack of skill/experience on part of the first officer? That’s a tough call to make from afar, but possibly.

Several people have described the incident as a “near crash,” or “almost crash,” etc. I would not go that far. To strike a wingtip and veer from the runway is serious, and it’s hard to say what might have happened had the go-around not been executed. But I would not describe the incident as a near-catastrophe.

PS

]]> By: ted http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467847 ted Tue, 04 Mar 2008 08:10:23 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467847 Wow. I hope they served a round of drinks before the second attempt. Wow. I hope they served a round of drinks before the second attempt.

]]> By: Ali S. http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467609 Ali S. Tue, 04 Mar 2008 02:59:09 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467609 Congrats to the pilot and his co-pilot for keeping their cool. Very well done and professional! Congrats to the pilot and his co-pilot for keeping their cool. Very well done and professional!

]]> By: Tom http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467457 Tom Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:58:38 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467457 I live in Hamburg. The pilot, now hailed as a hero, did indeed perform some serious flying, hitting full thrust when he noticed the sudden gust. An alternative airport wouldn't have looked that much better as all of Germany, and indeed much of western/central Europe were under a severe storm that day. The Clip was recorded by plane spotters who had turned up with the (rightful) anticipation that with a storm like this something will happen that is worth spotting. Translation of the two men talking off-camera: A: "Did you see that? That one almost went tits-up" B: "You know what I think? They will cancel all flights here every minute now." A: "So do I." B: "Did you see that? It touched the wing there (on the ground) in my opinion, or not?" A: "Looked like it, yeah" B: "Because I looked through this and it looked extremely close..." (Clip ends) I live in Hamburg. The pilot, now hailed as a hero, did indeed perform some serious flying, hitting full thrust when he noticed the sudden gust.
An alternative airport wouldn’t have looked that much better as all of Germany, and indeed much of western/central Europe were under a severe storm that day.
The Clip was recorded by plane spotters who had turned up with the (rightful) anticipation that with a storm like this something will happen that is worth spotting.

Translation of the two men talking off-camera:
A: “Did you see that? That one almost went tits-up”
B: “You know what I think? They will cancel all flights here every minute now.”
A: “So do I.”
B: “Did you see that? It touched the wing there (on the ground) in my opinion, or not?”
A: “Looked like it, yeah”
B: “Because I looked through this and it looked extremely close…” (Clip ends)

]]> By: KiM http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467452 KiM Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:52:20 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467452 Hi, I'm from Germany. The pilot has been applauded for his smart decision not to land. The tower is now being questioned because they gave the pilot a runway that was known for being bad during strong winds. There had been a storm warning hours before the landing of this plane - someone in the tower must have been sleeping or have ignored that weather warning and given the clear off for the dangerous runway. According to news, the pilot was up in the air again after only two days, with his co-pilot. Hi, I’m from Germany. The pilot has been applauded for his smart decision not to land. The tower is now being questioned because they gave the pilot a runway that was known for being bad during strong winds. There had been a storm warning hours before the landing of this plane - someone in the tower must have been sleeping or have ignored that weather warning and given the clear off for the dangerous runway.

According to news, the pilot was up in the air again after only two days, with his co-pilot.

]]> By: VonSkippy http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467334 VonSkippy Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:21:37 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467334 Max x-wind gusting for a A320 is 38 knots - I'm guessing it was just a tad higher for that approach. Max x-wind gusting for a A320 is 38 knots - I’m guessing it was just a tad higher for that approach.

]]> By: Das Eigentor http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467320 Das Eigentor Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:57:42 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467320 The jet did land on the second try - one news report I saw had a clip that mentioned that they landed on a different runway, which does suggest that the controllers found one that was a bit more into the wind. Those reports mentioned gusts to 150 mph, by the way... The jet did land on the second try - one news report I saw had a clip that mentioned that they landed on a different runway, which does suggest that the controllers found one that was a bit more into the wind. Those reports mentioned gusts to 150 mph, by the way…

]]> By: the man http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467318 the man Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:56:46 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467318 That was terrifying. wow. That was terrifying.

wow.

]]> By: Andrew32 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467291 Andrew32 Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:25:50 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467291 props to the pilot props to the pilot

]]> By: Tim Giachetti http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467277 Tim Giachetti Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:15:34 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467277 Extremely talented pilot. And shame on the controllers who cleared him for landing. The mark of shoddy training, the crew not considering such a sheer. I was a controller in the Navy, and no one I know would have allowed it. As far as another runway for clearance, they may not have had one to best match the wind heading. This pilot sure has a set on him. Just watching him "crab" into the wind to maintain his heading was a hard battle for his crew. Extremely talented pilot. And shame on the controllers who cleared him for landing. The mark of shoddy training, the crew not considering such a sheer. I was a controller in the Navy, and no one I know would have allowed it.

As far as another runway for clearance, they may not have had one to best match the wind heading.
This pilot sure has a set on him. Just watching him “crab” into the wind to maintain his heading was a hard battle for his crew.

]]> By: Alex http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467259 Alex Mon, 03 Mar 2008 20:55:12 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467259 I was surprised that the tower would give permission to land in the first place ... I was surprised that the tower would give permission to land in the first place …

]]> By: jenjen http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467241 jenjen Mon, 03 Mar 2008 20:31:29 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467241 Dang, my heart was in my throat just watching that on a tiny screen. I can't imagine how terrifying that must have been for everyone on that plane. Dang, my heart was in my throat just watching that on a tiny screen. I can’t imagine how terrifying that must have been for everyone on that plane.

]]> By: twodollars http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467188 twodollars Mon, 03 Mar 2008 19:46:09 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467188 I like how the cameraman said something that in my (basic) German, I understood to be something about them crapping their pants I like how the cameraman said something that in my (basic) German, I understood to be something about them crapping their pants

]]> By: Dave http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467186 Dave Mon, 03 Mar 2008 19:39:53 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467186 Scotchdrnkr: Correct, the tower makes the call on which runway is to be used, but ultimately the decision to attempt a landing or abort is up to the pilot, as he's the one who knows his plane's capabilities and his own abilities better than the guy in the tower. With an angle of attack like that, the guy would have to either be very sure of himself or very nuts. Just the fact that someone had a camera on this landing shows that someone made a decision that someone else thought questionable. Anybody know if the plane ended up landing at Hamburg or elsewhere? Scotchdrnkr: Correct, the tower makes the call on which runway is to be used, but ultimately the decision to attempt a landing or abort is up to the pilot, as he’s the one who knows his plane’s capabilities and his own abilities better than the guy in the tower. With an angle of attack like that, the guy would have to either be very sure of himself or very nuts.

Just the fact that someone had a camera on this landing shows that someone made a decision that someone else thought questionable.

Anybody know if the plane ended up landing at Hamburg or elsewhere?

]]> By: Scotchdrnkr http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467149 Scotchdrnkr Mon, 03 Mar 2008 18:57:35 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467149 Dave you are right in saying they should have used a different runway if available, but the pilot doesn't get to chose the runway the tower tells the pilot which one to use. Bet there where a lot of pairs of underwear that had to be changed after that flight. Dave you are right in saying they should have used a different runway if available, but the pilot doesn’t get to chose the runway the tower tells the pilot which one to use.

Bet there where a lot of pairs of underwear that had to be changed after that flight.

]]> By: nick http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467103 nick Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:45:26 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467103 that pilot deserves a raise!! that pilot deserves a raise!!

]]> By: Paul http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467094 Paul Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:40:02 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467094 Dang! That pilot has some skills. Dang! That pilot has some skills.

]]> By: Dave http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467060 Dave Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:20:05 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467060 Yikes is right. I would think the pilot wouldn't even risk a landing in winds like that; at least choose a runway that faces more into the wind, if not a different airport. I'd think the passengers - and pilot - would rather land safely and have an hour bus trip than crash. Yikes is right. I would think the pilot wouldn’t even risk a landing in winds like that; at least choose a runway that faces more into the wind, if not a different airport. I’d think the passengers - and pilot - would rather land safely and have an hour bus trip than crash.

]]> By: Johnny Cat http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467048 Johnny Cat Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:12:06 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467048 Yikes! "Chewie, lock in auxiliary power!" Yikes!

“Chewie, lock in auxiliary power!”

]]> By: Jerse http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467024 Jerse Mon, 03 Mar 2008 16:57:01 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-467024 I wonder what the pilot said after that: "Uh, sorry folks, it was pretty close there for a second - but I think I can nail it the second time around..." I wonder what the pilot said after that:

“Uh, sorry folks, it was pretty close there for a second - but I think I can nail it the second time around…”

]]> By: Jeep http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-466954 Jeep Mon, 03 Mar 2008 16:07:13 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/03/03/close-call-for-an-a320/#comment-466954 Bravo to the pilot, that was some serious puckered bunger flying! Bravo to the pilot, that was some serious puckered bunger flying!

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