Beacon experiment ‘busts’ goldfish memory myth

• bean
  February 17th, 2008 at 7:57 pm

  Mythbusters covered that a very long time ago. This kid just saw that episode.

• Aundrea
  February 17th, 2008 at 8:08 pm

  Is the conditioned association between the beacon and food the same as remembering one follows the other?

  (This is a legitimate question. I’m not trying to be a smart ass or anything.)

• alison
  February 17th, 2008 at 8:38 pm

  Yeah, I’m curious about that too. We used to flash the tank light on and off before feeding our fish and they’d all swim to the top to get ready. I didn’t assume it was about memory but an association between the light and food.

• Lea
  February 17th, 2008 at 8:41 pm

  All the fish I have every had, goldfish, guppies, betas, mollies, all swim to you or the place they expect food to come. Especially if it’s at the same time.
  I have never met anyone who actually believed that myth anyway…

• red
  February 17th, 2008 at 8:49 pm

  An ultra common experiment for youngsters. They don’t have to see it on mythbusters - they can think it up themselves. It’s boring and old to us, but for kids at that age, it’s a clever experiment that teaches them quite a bit on numerous levels.

• munky
  February 17th, 2008 at 8:57 pm

  Damn, I read that headline as “Bacon experiment…” and was expecting all sort of salty pork madness.
  Alas…

• MightyCow
  February 17th, 2008 at 9:10 pm

  After owning goldfish for a week, it’s obvious to anyone that they remember when feeding time is.

• sarahenity
  February 17th, 2008 at 9:11 pm

  “Yeah, I’m curious about that too. We used to flash the tank light on and off before feeding our fish and they’d all swim to the top to get ready. I didn’t assume it was about memory but an association between the light and food.”

  yeah, you’re right it’s classical conditioning, not unlike Pavlov’s experiments with dogs. Pavlov would ring a bell at feeding time, and eventually the dogs would begin to salivate when the bell rang, expecting food.

  it’s still about memory though, as they remember to make the association.

  neat.

• melmoo
  February 17th, 2008 at 9:25 pm

  Apparently there were maze tests conducted to support this observation.

  It is a classic example of Pavlovian conditioning and there is some level of memory association at work.

  Also, I remember the mythbusters episode was inconclusive: Jamie’s fish appeared to adapt to the maze while Adam’s fish were eating their own poo!

• VonSkippy
  February 17th, 2008 at 10:01 pm

  @red
  “but for kids at that age, it’s a clever experiment that teaches them quite a bit on numerous levels.”

  Kid’s that age??? The kid is 15, not 5. When I was 15 I designed and built my own working Gas Chromatograph (with both a FID and TCD), not train fish to swim to food.

  Sucks that public education in Australia is no better then it is here in the States.

• NiteWhite
  February 17th, 2008 at 10:11 pm

  goldfish are way smarter than they get credit for. however, they are way dumber than the top 10 smartest animals (ie, cats, dogs, pigs, parrots, etc.)

  my goldfish commonly eat their own feces, and sometimes they don’t spit it out. don’t know if that’s a measure of intelligence, but it sure is gross.

• Radin
  February 17th, 2008 at 10:48 pm

  Bean is right. The Mythbusters went above and beyond what Rory did. The Mythbusters tested the myth for 2 months (unlike 3 weeks) and the fish were left alone for a full month to remember their routine (unlike six days).

  Besides, the article seems to be a rip off of Mythbusters quotes. The goldfish memory episode quoted “debunked” about five times, and stated “the theory of keeping fish in small tanks” right from the show.

  If someone did a better and more concise experiment years before you did, there’s no need to do a smaller test and tell the whole world.

• Radin
  February 17th, 2008 at 10:50 pm

  And to add to my previous comment, it’s tacky to add “myth busted” to this rip off’s article title.

• Pudifoot
  February 17th, 2008 at 10:57 pm

  they also trained a goldfish to fetch on futurama.

  // i think i confuse reality and fantasy sometimes :-/

• stevo
  February 18th, 2008 at 12:50 am

  To Vonskippy

  You are not only an absolute nerd, you are an arrogant prick as well. Must’ve been a really lonely teenager.

• Athon
  February 18th, 2008 at 3:35 am

  Anybody stop to think that maybe this is a sad demonstration of a poor-thinking journo than abusing the kid?

  I’ve had kids of that age do all sorts of experiments which have been repeated a number of times before. So the 15 year old isn’t breaking new ground. They obviously had an assignment, chose something that interested them, replicated it…and some desperate journalist thinks to sensationalise it. Kid’s probably like a deer in headlights with the fame of it, but hardly entered it thinking he was Einstein.

  If anything, I think it deserves praise for Australia’s education system, while a wake-up call for science journalism.

  Athon

• MoniA
  February 18th, 2008 at 9:20 am

  Okay they aren’t the smartest but I always thought goldfish had a longer memory then scientists gave them credit for. I’m sure they can come up with a better experiment. This one doesn’t “hold much water” with me. The fish may just have been hungry and checking otu the new onject. BTW, goldfish need a 30 gallon or bigger aquarium to be kept healthy. The bowls are just temporary death traps.

• a pedant
  February 18th, 2008 at 11:11 am

  The experiment actually demonstrates operant conditioning, since swimming toward the beacon is a voluntary action that’s reinforced by the reward of food.

  Classical conditioning comes into play if, for instance, a fish involuntarily sticks out its tongue whenever it catches sight of a shrimp. If you repeatedly place the beacon in the water right before giving the fish a shrimp, the fish will habitually stick out its tongue in response to the beacon, even if you don’t feed it afterwards.

• NiteWhite
  February 18th, 2008 at 12:07 pm

  MoniA is right. Goldfish need inordinate amounts of water because they produce copious amounts of waste material/feces through their gills and fecal matter.

  People that stick them in stagnant bowls are cruelly killing goldfish slowly - no to mention those stuck in ipods!!

  i don’t know how many people ive met who wonder why their fish die in one week (space, uncycled tank, waste materials, untreated water, etc.)

  yes, i love fish!

• andy cochrane
  February 18th, 2008 at 7:18 pm

  i am more interested in learning where this myth came from in the first place- who decided that fish can only remember 3 seconds into the past, and how did they test their hypothesis? i know that my entire life this has been the common belief re: goldfish, but how on earth did it actually start!

• Baikinman
  February 19th, 2008 at 11:48 am

  VonSkippy: The next time you decide to slag off a fifteen-year-old kid, I would recommend checking your grammar first. Your arrogance is not warranted.

  As for the experiment, yes the Mythbusters have been there and done that. However, I will still be passing this link on to someone I know, who has been using the “three-second memory” myth as an excuse for keeping four good-sized goldfish in a ten-gallon tank and three others in a bowl. He actually said that goldfish are too stupid to feel pain, and even if they did, they wouldn’t remember! And he wonders why they’re now dying one by one…

• katelady
  February 20th, 2008 at 3:02 am

  I’m cruious about it.Goldfish need inordinate amounts of water because they produce copious amounts of waste material/feces through their gills and fecal matter.I ever checked the similar video on horsematch com place.

• minimez
  February 26th, 2008 at 12:12 am

  well i for one am glad that this article was brought to our attention - it certainly stirred up quite a lively discussion/debate among readers. and just because its been done on mythbusters doesn’t mean its myth busted/confirmed/plausible. hmmph!

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