Comments on: Flattery Begins at Four http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/ The Neat Side of the Web Tue, 24 Nov 2009 04:01:47 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Alex http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/comment-page-1/#comment-451122 Alex Mon, 18 Feb 2008 23:22:23 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/#comment-451122 @Gerry: "Bull…. I’ve seen two-year-olds lie when they thought they were in trouble or they thought they could get another cookie/candy." True, but the intent there is self-interest (to get out of trouble or for "ccokie" gain). The study purports to show that lying in the interest of others (though you can argue that ultimately it's also in the interest of self), begins at four. @Gerry: "Bull…. I’ve seen two-year-olds lie when they thought they were in trouble or they thought they could get another cookie/candy."

True, but the intent there is self-interest (to get out of trouble or for "ccokie" gain). The study purports to show that lying in the interest of others (though you can argue that ultimately it's also in the interest of self), begins at four.

]]> By: Alex http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/comment-page-1/#comment-451112 Alex Mon, 18 Feb 2008 23:14:36 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/#comment-451112 I learn something new today! Thanks anon for the explanation of "normal university." I learn something new today! Thanks anon for the explanation of "normal university."

]]> By: anon http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/comment-page-1/#comment-450714 anon Mon, 18 Feb 2008 13:52:40 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/#comment-450714 A "normal university" is just another name for a college that trains teachers. There are plenty of other schools with the same designation worldwide, probably the best-known of which are the French "Écoles Normales". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_university A "normal university" is just another name for a college that trains teachers. There are plenty of other schools with the same designation worldwide, probably the best-known of which are the French "Écoles Normales".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_university

]]> By: marieissah http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/comment-page-1/#comment-450475 marieissah Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:45:24 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/#comment-450475 My brother's 3 but somehow he appreciates it My brother's 3 but somehow he appreciates it

]]> By: Tempscire http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/comment-page-1/#comment-449850 Tempscire Sun, 17 Feb 2008 19:51:29 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/#comment-449850 Showing empathy and being careful of another's feelings are ways to advance socially. There's very little true altruism in the world. Showing empathy and being careful of another's feelings are ways to advance socially. There's very little true altruism in the world.

]]> By: L http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/comment-page-1/#comment-449849 L Sun, 17 Feb 2008 19:49:46 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/#comment-449849 So we're already thinking about sucking up to our future bosses when we're four? I doubt that. I think it's more likely the first explanation: "It can be to show gratitude for some positive action in the past." Especially since familiar people got more praise. So we're already thinking about sucking up to our future bosses when we're four? I doubt that. I think it's more likely the first explanation: "It can be to show gratitude for some positive action in the past." Especially since familiar people got more praise.

]]> By: Heureuse http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/comment-page-1/#comment-449643 Heureuse Sun, 17 Feb 2008 13:50:49 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/#comment-449643 I think Jack is absolutely right. It actually reflects on the researchers that they assumed the kids were making social investments, rather than trying to be thoughtful. I think Jack is absolutely right. It actually reflects on the researchers that they assumed the kids were making social investments, rather than trying to be thoughtful.

]]> By: Jack Myles http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/comment-page-1/#comment-449468 Jack Myles Sun, 17 Feb 2008 09:17:37 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/#comment-449468 Couldn't the motivation for their responses be something a little more simple than future social advancement? couldn't it just be that maybe they've gained some empathy and simply don't want to hurt the other person's feelings? Just a thought Couldn't the motivation for their responses be something a little more simple than future social advancement? couldn't it just be that maybe they've gained some empathy and simply don't want to hurt the other person's feelings? Just a thought

]]> By: Diogenes http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/comment-page-1/#comment-449203 Diogenes Sun, 17 Feb 2008 04:11:33 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/#comment-449203 or its one little building block among many. depending on the child and whatever is distict in development and whatever special point of view. So what leads to a wine and cheese opening shmooze fest is anyone's guess, the gap that you bring up, oakling, makes me think about social skills in general and the complexity and mundane situations we all go through . or its one little building block among many. depending on the child and whatever is distict in development and whatever special point of view. So what leads to a wine and cheese opening shmooze fest is anyone's guess,
the gap that you bring up, oakling, makes me think about social skills in general and the complexity and mundane situations we all go through .

]]> By: oakling http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/comment-page-1/#comment-449195 oakling Sun, 17 Feb 2008 03:55:30 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/#comment-449195 A two-year-old lying to get a cookie doesn't map onto art criticism unless the artist has cookies for them. I assume they weren't at a wine and cheese opening :) I mean, this stuff illustrates that there is a developmental gap between "I have learned what you want me to say in exchange for a cookie" and "I have learned that you want me to say 'nice' things about anything connected to you to your face." I would like to read the study sometime and see if they made a distinction between tact and straight-up lying. You can choose to share the truthful nice reactions you have with an artist or phrase the "negative" ones constructively, without lying. To me, four-year-olds doing that are learning about manners - being socialized - whereas if they are lying about their reactions they are showing that they've found people will not be nice to them if they say something negative - which is a whole other world. A two-year-old lying to get a cookie doesn't map onto art criticism unless the artist has cookies for them. I assume they weren't at a wine and cheese opening :) I mean, this stuff illustrates that there is a developmental gap between "I have learned what you want me to say in exchange for a cookie" and "I have learned that you want me to say 'nice' things about anything connected to you to your face."

I would like to read the study sometime and see if they made a distinction between tact and straight-up lying. You can choose to share the truthful nice reactions you have with an artist or phrase the "negative" ones constructively, without lying. To me, four-year-olds doing that are learning about manners - being socialized - whereas if they are lying about their reactions they are showing that they've found people will not be nice to them if they say something negative - which is a whole other world.

]]> By: Diogenes http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/comment-page-1/#comment-449190 Diogenes Sun, 17 Feb 2008 03:47:03 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/#comment-449190 we learn quickly to lie, in order to get what we want. dont we Gerry? we learn quickly to lie, in order to get what we want. dont we Gerry?

]]> By: Gerry http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/comment-page-1/#comment-449187 Gerry Sun, 17 Feb 2008 03:41:25 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/#comment-449187 The three-year-olds were completely honest??? Bull.... I've seen two-year-olds lie when they thought they were in trouble or they thought they could get another cookie/candy. Pets, too. Not just our previous cats, but our current bunny can lie like a rug if he thinks he can get another treat out of you. The three-year-olds were completely honest???

Bull.... I've seen two-year-olds lie when they thought they were in trouble or they thought they could get another cookie/candy.

Pets, too. Not just our previous cats, but our current bunny can lie like a rug if he thinks he can get another treat out of you.

]]> By: Diogenes http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/comment-page-1/#comment-449186 Diogenes Sun, 17 Feb 2008 03:40:39 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/16/flattery-begins-at-four/#comment-449186 basic behaviorisms, I would think, has something to do with it too. along with learning how to lie from the rest of us. also a seperation of adult and child, by forming lie barriers as a security of truth(which is llife/play ect, not war and predujice, ect. distiguishing differences is a part of lying, and flattery comes from us too, as positive reassurance. investments for future benefits that allow for self gratifying baths. lie for love basic behaviorisms, I would think, has something to do with it too. along with learning how to lie from the rest of us. also a seperation of adult and child, by forming lie barriers as a security of truth(which is llife/play ect, not war and predujice, ect.
distiguishing differences is a part of lying, and flattery comes from us too, as positive reassurance.
investments for future benefits that allow for self gratifying baths.
lie for love

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