Comments on: The Language Tree http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/ The Neat Side of the Web Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:33:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Kamili http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-723026 Kamili Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:06:39 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-723026 halllllllloooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! Where is one of the old languages??? The A L B A N I A N language? You must do this.ok halllllllloooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!
Where is one of the old languages???
The A L B A N I A N language?

You must do this.ok

]]> By: kaylee http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-627982 kaylee Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:11:36 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-627982 I have a paper copy of this diagram and the heading reads "The Indo-European Language Family (449 languages)" I think, therefore, Portugese will find itself quite happily in one of the many smaller twigs. I have a paper copy of this diagram and the heading reads “The Indo-European Language Family (449 languages)”

I think, therefore, Portugese will find itself quite happily in one of the many smaller twigs.

]]> By: yayo http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-457454 yayo Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:14:59 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-457454 Where's portuguese? it should be next to Spanish and French as a romanic language... Where’s portuguese? it should be next to Spanish and French as a romanic language…

]]> By: Robert Beard http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-446353 Robert Beard Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:25:55 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-446353 I would like to know who owns the PIE tree on this page (language.jpg). I would like to use it on my website and would be happy to recognize the artist. I would like to know who owns the PIE tree on this page (language.jpg). I would like to use it on my website and would be happy to recognize the artist.

]]> By: Jay http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-437476 Jay Fri, 08 Feb 2008 04:08:24 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-437476 Yeah like Phil said... the reality is way more complex. English inherits from many of those and even at it's core... it takes a lot from Old and Modern French. France itself was a vast melting pot, took from many sources... and became the original "Lingua franca" and in return influenced those languages back. Much like modern English today. English's core comes from Germanic roots but much of the vocabulary is from old French, when not directly Latin. Yeah like Phil said… the reality is way more complex.
English inherits from many of those and even at it’s core… it takes a lot from Old and Modern French. France itself was a vast melting pot, took from many sources… and became the original “Lingua franca” and in return influenced those languages back. Much like modern English today.
English’s core comes from Germanic roots but much of the vocabulary is from old French, when not directly Latin.

]]> By: Jeremy http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-437332 Jeremy Fri, 08 Feb 2008 00:58:57 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-437332 Sid, Thanks for the education. It was very informative and fascinating. I think it would be great if someone did some sort of flash animation showing different parts of the world and how languages migrated and mutated as time went on. Sid,
Thanks for the education. It was very informative and fascinating. I think it would be great if someone did some sort of flash animation showing different parts of the world and how languages migrated and mutated as time went on.

]]> By: Sid Morrison http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-437068 Sid Morrison Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:17:57 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-437068 Jeremy- It's a good question. Whilst almost people in Scotland and Ireland are able to speak English, that was only the result of a few hundred years of "gentle persuasion" on the part of the English. The native languages of Ireland and Scotland are *completely* different from English and generally not very mutually intelligible. Scotland actually has 2 native languages, "Scots" (or "Lowland Scots") and "Scottish Gaelic", which is more highland in origin. Scots is distantly related to English on a very ancient basis and is thus a Germanic language as well. Scottish Gaelic, in contrast, is related to "Irish" (or "Irish Gaelic", often confusingly called just "Gaelic" ) and also Manx, another Gaelic language from the Isle of Man. All are in the Celtic branch, as the diagram shows, and are rather removed from English, German, Dutch, and other Germanic langauges. If you google around you can find some sound bites (even internet radio stations) of people speaking Irish Gaelic. If you've never heard it, it's probably completely unrecognizable (and very cool). I applaud the efforts for Irish speakers to continue to promote the recovery of their language -- losing it would be a tremendous loss of their history and culture. It's but a minority of the Irish population that speaks Irish daily, but there are pockets of the country where it is the #1 language (although they can speak English also). The situation is a lot worse for Scottish Gaelic and Manx unfortunately... Sid "9/32 Irish" Morrison Jeremy-
It’s a good question. Whilst almost people in Scotland and Ireland are able to speak English, that was only the result of a few hundred years of “gentle persuasion” on the part of the English.

The native languages of Ireland and Scotland are *completely* different from English and generally not very mutually intelligible. Scotland actually has 2 native languages, “Scots” (or “Lowland Scots”) and “Scottish Gaelic”, which is more highland in origin. Scots is distantly related to English on a very ancient basis and is thus a Germanic language as well. Scottish Gaelic, in contrast, is related to “Irish” (or “Irish Gaelic”, often confusingly called just “Gaelic” ) and also Manx, another Gaelic language from the Isle of Man. All are in the Celtic branch, as the diagram shows, and are rather removed from English, German, Dutch, and other Germanic langauges.

If you google around you can find some sound bites (even internet radio stations) of people speaking Irish Gaelic. If you’ve never heard it, it’s probably completely unrecognizable (and very cool). I applaud the efforts for Irish speakers to continue to promote the recovery of their language — losing it would be a tremendous loss of their history and culture. It’s but a minority of the Irish population that speaks Irish daily, but there are pockets of the country where it is the #1 language (although they can speak English also). The situation is a lot worse for Scottish Gaelic and Manx unfortunately…

Sid “9/32 Irish” Morrison

]]> By: Jeremy http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-436028 Jeremy Thu, 07 Feb 2008 02:35:27 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-436028 I may come across as a complete linguistics neophyte by asking this question... but I thought English, Scottish, and Irish were all just about the same language. Why are they on completely different branches? I may come across as a complete linguistics neophyte by asking this question… but I thought English, Scottish, and Irish were all just about the same language. Why are they on completely different branches?

]]> By: Dypok http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-436023 Dypok Thu, 07 Feb 2008 02:24:13 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-436023 I'd love to see where Asian, Native American and African languages are in relation to this. Anyone know of a larger tree? I’d love to see where Asian, Native American and African languages are in relation to this. Anyone know of a larger tree?

]]> By: witofatwit http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-435950 witofatwit Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:38:32 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-435950 I would like to point out that Portuguese is not mentioned most likely because it is so similar to Spanish. To the point where I as a Portuguese speaker can understand Spanish. In fact, I have a harder time understanding some dialects of Brazilian Portuguese. I would compare it is the difference between Afrikaans and Dutch. I would like to point out that Portuguese is not mentioned most likely because it is so similar to Spanish. To the point where I as a Portuguese speaker can understand Spanish. In fact, I have a harder time understanding some dialects of Brazilian Portuguese. I would compare it is the difference between Afrikaans and Dutch.

]]> By: Radmila http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-435050 Radmila Wed, 06 Feb 2008 09:12:56 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-435050 What about Macedonian language? Where is Macedonian language? What about Macedonian language? Where is Macedonian language?

]]> By: su.wei http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-434212 su.wei Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:55:38 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-434212 i dont know how accurate this is...but it's fascinating nonetheless i dont know how accurate this is…but it’s fascinating nonetheless

]]> By: Ryan http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-434192 Ryan Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:48:59 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-434192 Also, I should probably comment, I don't really know all that much about Indo-European languages, so much as Uralic/Finno-Ugrian languages. Even then, I'm pretty much Hooked on 'Finnics' (lulz, couldn't resist). Finnic first person pronouns look like: minä/mä, mie, ma, mun, mon Finnic second person pronouns: sinä/sä, šie, sa, don, ton Also, some cursory googling lead me to: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=indo-uralic&btnG=Search Hmmmm... Also, I should probably comment, I don’t really know all that much about Indo-European languages, so much as Uralic/Finno-Ugrian languages. Even then, I’m pretty much Hooked on ‘Finnics’ (lulz, couldn’t resist).

Finnic first person pronouns look like: minä/mä, mie, ma, mun, mon

Finnic second person pronouns: sinä/sä, šie, sa, don, ton

Also, some cursory googling lead me to: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=indo-uralic&btnG=Search

Hmmmm…

]]> By: Ryan http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-434168 Ryan Tue, 05 Feb 2008 20:41:21 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-434168 Dan: Finnish is Finno-Ugric, just like Hungarian; Northern Sámi, Estonian, Karelian. They're not on this tree since they are not Indo-European, although theories point to Proto-Finno-Ugric as being closely related to Proto-Indo-European. I've heard evidence cited being along the lines of 1st and 2nd person pronouns being similar, as well as verb suffixes involving those: English: I, <b>m</b>e, <b>m</b>y; I a<b>m</b>. You, your (thou). You are/<b>Th</b>ou ar<b>t</b>. Finnish: <b>m</b>inä, <b>m</b>inun; <b>M</b>inä ole<b>n</b>. <b>s</b>inä, <b>s</b>inun; <b>s</b>inä ole<b>t</b>. Most of Indo-European languages show some sort of nasal consonant as 1st person, and some sort of 'dental'/alveolarish consonant for 2nd person, so we have those in the above example, as well as these other 1st person pronouns: 1st Person French: je, me Spanish: yo, mi German: ich, meine (sp?) Russian: ja, menja (excuse the transliteration) Swedish: jag, mig/min/mitt 2nd Person: French: tu Spanish: tu German: du Russian: ty Swedish: du Mysterious, right? Anyway, there's probably more evidence for such a relation, but I'm not going to try to list it exhaustively. Basic point: Finnish and Hungarian are not I.E. languages. :) Dan: Finnish is Finno-Ugric, just like Hungarian; Northern Sámi, Estonian, Karelian. They’re not on this tree since they are not Indo-European, although theories point to Proto-Finno-Ugric as being closely related to Proto-Indo-European. I’ve heard evidence cited being along the lines of 1st and 2nd person pronouns being similar, as well as verb suffixes involving those:

English: I, me, my; I am. You, your (thou). You are/Thou art.
Finnish: minä, minun; Minä olen. sinä, sinun; sinä olet.

Most of Indo-European languages show some sort of nasal consonant as 1st person, and some sort of ‘dental’/alveolarish consonant for 2nd person, so we have those in the above example, as well as these other 1st person pronouns:

1st Person

French: je, me
Spanish: yo, mi
German: ich, meine (sp?)
Russian: ja, menja (excuse the transliteration)
Swedish: jag, mig/min/mitt

2nd Person:

French: tu
Spanish: tu
German: du
Russian: ty
Swedish: du

Mysterious, right? Anyway, there’s probably more evidence for such a relation, but I’m not going to try to list it exhaustively. Basic point: Finnish and Hungarian are not I.E. languages. :)

]]> By: Dan Henderson http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-433870 Dan Henderson Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:06:33 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-433870 Finnish is missing. I understand it's related to Hungarian, which was previously noted as absent. Finnish is missing. I understand it’s related to Hungarian, which was previously noted as absent.

]]> By: Sid Morrison http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-433637 Sid Morrison Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:38:38 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-433637 I noticed Portugeuse was absent -- that's a huge one to forget considering how many people speak it (especially Brazil). I'm guessing it was a (major) oversight. As for the influence of French... Yes, modern languages take influence from each other. English has many words that got in via the Norman invasion (& change of court) 1000 years ago. And, there is a ton of Latin as well that came in mostly during the Elizabethan era. While there are many many words that come from Latin, no one considers English a Romance language.... I think trees like this are trying to show long term slow evolution of a language's roots without sudden changes from large scale immigration. Hence, English is more related to German than French. It often helps if you compare very simple common words, rather than the complex ones which get imported directly. Discerning what evolved from what is a tough and probably nebulous call to make in a lot of cases, but that's what linguistics gurus do to earn their huge cash and worldwide fame. I noticed Portugeuse was absent — that’s a huge one to forget considering how many people speak it (especially Brazil). I’m guessing it was a (major) oversight.

As for the influence of French… Yes, modern languages take influence from each other. English has many words that got in via the Norman invasion (& change of court) 1000 years ago. And, there is a ton of Latin as well that came in mostly during the Elizabethan era. While there are many many words that come from Latin, no one considers English a Romance language….

I think trees like this are trying to show long term slow evolution of a language’s roots without sudden changes from large scale immigration. Hence, English is more related to German than French. It often helps if you compare very simple common words, rather than the complex ones which get imported directly.

Discerning what evolved from what is a tough and probably nebulous call to make in a lot of cases, but that’s what linguistics gurus do to earn their huge cash and worldwide fame.

]]> By: phil http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-433620 phil Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:18:09 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-433620 fascinating linquistic factoid: of the common modern european languages, Hungarian and Basque are not connected to indo-european at all. fascinating linquistic factoid: of the common modern european languages, Hungarian and Basque are not connected to indo-european at all.

]]> By: silfo http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-433589 silfo Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:32:52 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-433589 Portuguese is forgotten as well, it seems. It should have been put in the Latin branch... Portuguese is forgotten as well, it seems. It should have been put in the Latin branch…

]]> By: phil http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-433572 phil Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:14:13 +0000 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/02/05/the-language-tree/#comment-433572 seems slightly inaccurate to me. for instance, this diagram doesn't take into account the obvious influence of french on modern english. seems slightly inaccurate to me. for instance, this diagram doesn’t take into account the obvious influence of french on modern english.

]]>