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	<title>Comments on: The Alphabet of Nations</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/</link>
	<description>The Neat Side of the Web</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 13:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2</generator>
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		<title>By: Sid Morrison</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-413056</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid Morrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-413056</guid>
		<description>@Scott-
Yeah, I know the ROY G BIV one too, but as I'm a bit of an Anglophile (&#38; history geek), I like the one UK kids know (Richard Of York...) better.  It kills 2 birds with one stone -- I shall never forget he was defeated (by the Lancasters). 

And what the hell is a "roy-g-biv" anyhow? Coming up with a nonsense word as a mnemonic is weak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Scott-<br />
Yeah, I know the ROY G BIV one too, but as I&#8217;m a bit of an Anglophile (&amp; history geek), I like the one UK kids know (Richard Of York&#8230;) better.  It kills 2 birds with one stone &#8212; I shall never forget he was defeated (by the Lancasters). </p>
<p>And what the hell is a &#8220;roy-g-biv&#8221; anyhow? Coming up with a nonsense word as a mnemonic is weak.</p>
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		<title>By: Olaf</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-412459</link>
		<dc:creator>Olaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:28:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-412459</guid>
		<description>I would like to recommend this free program:
http://www.wartoft.nu/software/seterra/

great to learn geography</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to recommend this free program:<br />
<a href="http://www.wartoft.nu/software/seterra/" rel="nofollow">http://www.wartoft.nu/software/seterra/</a></p>
<p>great to learn geography</p>
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		<title>By: Jacki</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-412456</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-412456</guid>
		<description>Wakko's World is better indeed. This one, I wonder how they chose some countries over another. They seem to ignore all of North America lol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wakko&#8217;s World is better indeed. This one, I wonder how they chose some countries over another. They seem to ignore all of North America lol.</p>
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		<title>By: ted</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-412340</link>
		<dc:creator>ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 05:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-412340</guid>
		<description>ROY G BIV reminded me:

I had to memorize the countries of the world for a test. The lunch break before the test, we made up "Very Carefully Ed Put  Caustic Acid Up Pete's Big Bum" for South America, "My Mother Maliciously Said, Gee SL-ICk, Go To Bed" for the western coast of Africa, as two examples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ROY G BIV reminded me:</p>
<p>I had to memorize the countries of the world for a test. The lunch break before the test, we made up &#8220;Very Carefully Ed Put  Caustic Acid Up Pete&#8217;s Big Bum&#8221; for South America, &#8220;My Mother Maliciously Said, Gee SL-ICk, Go To Bed&#8221; for the western coast of Africa, as two examples.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott K</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-412213</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 03:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-412213</guid>
		<description>Sid: I'd say ROY G BIV is already a mnemonic, and doesn't need more words attached. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sid: I&#8217;d say ROY G BIV is already a mnemonic, and doesn&#8217;t need more words attached. <img src='http://www.neatorama.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Jerad</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-412074</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 01:39:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-412074</guid>
		<description>All about the anamaniacs!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All about the anamaniacs!</p>
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		<title>By: Joan</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411674</link>
		<dc:creator>Joan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411674</guid>
		<description>Oops, I meant to post this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0y8jkfXoX8</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, I meant to post this link: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0y8jkfXoX8" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0y8jkfXoX8</a></p>
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		<title>By: Joan</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411672</link>
		<dc:creator>Joan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411672</guid>
		<description>A cute song, but hardly comprehensive.  I second Eugenio's Animaniacs suggestion.  "Yakko's World" is much better in terms of covering the countries of the world: http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comments</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A cute song, but hardly comprehensive.  I second Eugenio&#8217;s Animaniacs suggestion.  &#8220;Yakko&#8217;s World&#8221; is much better in terms of covering the countries of the world: <a href="http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comments" rel="nofollow">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comments</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sid Morrison</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411417</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid Morrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411417</guid>
		<description>Richard
Of
York
Gave
Battle
In
Vain</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard<br />
Of<br />
York<br />
Gave<br />
Battle<br />
In<br />
Vain</p>
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		<title>By: Sid Morrison</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411415</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid Morrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411415</guid>
		<description>Good comments from Eugenio, Patrick, and Alex.  I'll add one thing:  Memorization is NECESSARY BUT NOT SUFFICIENT.  That is "engineer-speak" for saying kids DO need to learn memorization skills (for all the reasons the others posted), but it's not sufficient in itself to ONLY know memorized facts. But I've never heard anyone claim that ONLY memorizing facts is important!  Who claims this??  Rather, it's just the FIRST step (and a continuing tool) to a life full of learning.

It's absolutely *necessary* that children know a lot of facts before they continue on the path towards better understanding. In the classical education model, it's termed the "trivium" (Latin for "3 ways") of Grammar, Logic, and Rhetoric.  The earliest stage (grammar) is most of this memorization and fact gathering takes place; from there, children learn to think creatively (Logic), and then express themselevs (Rhetoric).  You need all three (!) to be well-educated, so yes, memorization is an important component.  It only gets a bad rap from mush-headed "educators" (never trust a teacher who is too big for their britches to call himself a teacher) with advanced degrees in "Education" rather than core knowledge subjects, like language, history, science, or math.  These dolts don't know a whole lot about anything themselves, so this disparage memorization because they don't like students more knowledgable than themselves.  Your tax dollars at work in the world of government schools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good comments from Eugenio, Patrick, and Alex.  I&#8217;ll add one thing:  Memorization is NECESSARY BUT NOT SUFFICIENT.  That is &#8220;engineer-speak&#8221; for saying kids DO need to learn memorization skills (for all the reasons the others posted), but it&#8217;s not sufficient in itself to ONLY know memorized facts. But I&#8217;ve never heard anyone claim that ONLY memorizing facts is important!  Who claims this??  Rather, it&#8217;s just the FIRST step (and a continuing tool) to a life full of learning.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s absolutely *necessary* that children know a lot of facts before they continue on the path towards better understanding. In the classical education model, it&#8217;s termed the &#8220;trivium&#8221; (Latin for &#8220;3 ways&#8221;) of Grammar, Logic, and Rhetoric.  The earliest stage (grammar) is most of this memorization and fact gathering takes place; from there, children learn to think creatively (Logic), and then express themselevs (Rhetoric).  You need all three (!) to be well-educated, so yes, memorization is an important component.  It only gets a bad rap from mush-headed &#8220;educators&#8221; (never trust a teacher who is too big for their britches to call himself a teacher) with advanced degrees in &#8220;Education&#8221; rather than core knowledge subjects, like language, history, science, or math.  These dolts don&#8217;t know a whole lot about anything themselves, so this disparage memorization because they don&#8217;t like students more knowledgable than themselves.  Your tax dollars at work in the world of government schools.</p>
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		<title>By: ted</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411408</link>
		<dc:creator>ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411408</guid>
		<description>Won't a whole generation of children grow up thinking there's a country called West Xylophone in the middle of the Atlantic?

And whatever happened to East Xylophone? Shouldn't they get equal billing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Won&#8217;t a whole generation of children grow up thinking there&#8217;s a country called West Xylophone in the middle of the Atlantic?</p>
<p>And whatever happened to East Xylophone? Shouldn&#8217;t they get equal billing?</p>
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		<title>By: sparge</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411258</link>
		<dc:creator>sparge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411258</guid>
		<description>It's better live...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s better live&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Catherine</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411249</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411249</guid>
		<description>Hey now, its not the only tool people should be using to learn, but its pretty darn handy. Especially with a song, its so much easier to remember facts and what not if you learn them in a song.

In fact, I can *still* sing all of the US states in alphabetical order! (a song I learned in 4th grade, i am now 27!) I can then take the map and label all the states and their capitals.... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey now, its not the only tool people should be using to learn, but its pretty darn handy. Especially with a song, its so much easier to remember facts and what not if you learn them in a song.</p>
<p>In fact, I can *still* sing all of the US states in alphabetical order! (a song I learned in 4th grade, i am now 27!) I can then take the map and label all the states and their capitals&#8230;. <img src='http://www.neatorama.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411226</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411226</guid>
		<description>@Betty: Nah, you're wrong about memorization. It's a much maligned education too. To be fair, memorization is often overused. 

Nevertheless, it is a basic and important component of learning, especially for young children who have yet to develop analytical skills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Betty: Nah, you&#8217;re wrong about memorization. It&#8217;s a much maligned education too. To be fair, memorization is often overused. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, it is a basic and important component of learning, especially for young children who have yet to develop analytical skills.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411207</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411207</guid>
		<description>Seriously, what is wrong with some of you people.  It is a fun little song.  Who cares if it produces some profound and life long appreciation of the ethnographic influences of Bulgarian cheese manufacturing on chimp trading in Mongolia.  Why get your stuff in a twist?  Are you seriously jealous of a three year who can perform a parlor trick?  

Also, rote memorization is of value.  Knowing the order of the presidents is essentially useless, just as knowing the "Alphabet of Nations" is, in a practical sense, useless.  That is not the point.  What is of value is establishing the neural pathways that facilitate the development of more complex memory functions.  More importantly it is fun.  

My kids love to sing this song, it is one of our favorite car ride chanties.  I don't think TMBG were setting out to get five year olds onto Jeopardy.  Its a cd about the Alphabet for cripes sake.  They were just engaging in fun little mind game and rhyming some really nutty words.  The follow up to singing this song for us is, "Ok everbody now its time for the Alphabet of Foods or the Alphabet of Farm Animals."  Not trying to make geniuses just trying to get to grandma's house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously, what is wrong with some of you people.  It is a fun little song.  Who cares if it produces some profound and life long appreciation of the ethnographic influences of Bulgarian cheese manufacturing on chimp trading in Mongolia.  Why get your stuff in a twist?  Are you seriously jealous of a three year who can perform a parlor trick?  </p>
<p>Also, rote memorization is of value.  Knowing the order of the presidents is essentially useless, just as knowing the &#8220;Alphabet of Nations&#8221; is, in a practical sense, useless.  That is not the point.  What is of value is establishing the neural pathways that facilitate the development of more complex memory functions.  More importantly it is fun.  </p>
<p>My kids love to sing this song, it is one of our favorite car ride chanties.  I don&#8217;t think TMBG were setting out to get five year olds onto Jeopardy.  Its a cd about the Alphabet for cripes sake.  They were just engaging in fun little mind game and rhyming some really nutty words.  The follow up to singing this song for us is, &#8220;Ok everbody now its time for the Alphabet of Foods or the Alphabet of Farm Animals.&#8221;  Not trying to make geniuses just trying to get to grandma&#8217;s house.</p>
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		<title>By: amberae</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411197</link>
		<dc:creator>amberae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411197</guid>
		<description>this is not the first time this has been done. i mean, they might be giants is awesome, but let's not forget the animaniancs nations of the world. that was my childhood entertainment with particle man on tiny toons.

can i imbed on here? lets try...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is not the first time this has been done. i mean, they might be giants is awesome, but let&#8217;s not forget the animaniancs nations of the world. that was my childhood entertainment with particle man on tiny toons.</p>
<p>can i imbed on here? lets try&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Eugenio Martínez</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411164</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugenio Martínez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411164</guid>
		<description>About the 2nd comment: The memorization is also util. You can´t "understand" the list of presidents.

Today they only can thell the order. In fifteen years, they can tell who they are and the order.

The memory is not the only, but is very necesary and helpful to learn

About the post:

The best Country song is the animaniac´s

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IDtdQ8bTvRc

And they call at Sahara "Spanish Sahara", the real name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the 2nd comment: The memorization is also util. You can´t &#8220;understand&#8221; the list of presidents.</p>
<p>Today they only can thell the order. In fifteen years, they can tell who they are and the order.</p>
<p>The memory is not the only, but is very necesary and helpful to learn</p>
<p>About the post:</p>
<p>The best Country song is the animaniac´s</p>
<p><a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=IDtdQ8bTvRc" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=IDtdQ8bTvRc</a></p>
<p>And they call at Sahara &#8220;Spanish Sahara&#8221;, the real name.</p>
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		<title>By: Betty</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411087</link>
		<dc:creator>Betty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411087</guid>
		<description>I'm not a fan of this type of memorization for children.  It doesn't actually teach anything; it's like the small children who can name all of the presidents in order.  That's wonderful that you can do that little Timmy, but now can you tell me who George Washington was?  *blank stare*

Or similarly, the beloved Suzuki Method for learning music.  As a musician, I hate that, because all it teaches children is to mimic what they hear.  They don't have a real, fundamental understanding of the structure of music.

It's a neat trick on a superficial surface level, but it is meaningless when you dig deeper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a fan of this type of memorization for children.  It doesn&#8217;t actually teach anything; it&#8217;s like the small children who can name all of the presidents in order.  That&#8217;s wonderful that you can do that little Timmy, but now can you tell me who George Washington was?  *blank stare*</p>
<p>Or similarly, the beloved Suzuki Method for learning music.  As a musician, I hate that, because all it teaches children is to mimic what they hear.  They don&#8217;t have a real, fundamental understanding of the structure of music.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a neat trick on a superficial surface level, but it is meaningless when you dig deeper.</p>
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		<title>By: k</title>
		<link>http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411068</link>
		<dc:creator>k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/23/the-alphabet-of-nations/#comment-411068</guid>
		<description>Why do they sing it twice? And it doesn't really give kids a clear idea about where those countries are. Geography games are much more useful</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do they sing it twice? And it doesn&#8217;t really give kids a clear idea about where those countries are. Geography games are much more useful</p>
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