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88 comments to "Latin You Should Know."
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Pyracantha
June 29th, 2007 at
3:31 am
There are two typos in the Latin here.
“In media res” should be “In medias res.”
“Tabular rasa” should be “tabula rasa.”
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a.
June 29th, 2007 at
3:47 am
isn’t it “homo (est) homini lupus”?
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h
June 29th, 2007 at
4:22 am
No, it’s not pronounced WAY-nee, etc. The V is sharper (as variation), and the e is just a straight e.
You wouldn’t call a Venn diagram a “Wayne diagram”, would you?
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Quin
June 29th, 2007 at
4:33 am
The ovid quote is used in the very beginning of A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man by James Joyce, and I think Opus is best interpreted as Best Work or Greatest Work, but I’m no latin expert.
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Nicholas Dollak
June 29th, 2007 at
4:48 am
Regarding a’s observation (#2), I believe he or she has a valid point, although rearranging the word order would not correct it much. Since the word for “wolf” is used as a direct object, it should be “lupum,” which is the accusative form of “lupus.” Although syntax in Latin can be flexible, I believe the correct way to phrase this would be “Homo ad homini lupum est.” A more concise way would be “Homo est homini lupum” — also acceptable. (I could be wrong, though; best to consult a very good professor of Latin.)
And h’s comment (#3) regarding pronunciation: In classical Latin pronunciation, “v” was pronounced like “w” in English, “e” was pronounced like long “a” and “i” was pronounced like long “e.” The name “Venn” (of diagram fame) is not Latin in origin; therefore it is not pronounced like “Wayne.” However, one must keep in mind that Latin pronunciation was subject to all manner of local variants in Italy and abroad during (and long after) the days of the Roman Empire. Latin was spoken (sort of) by scholars as far afield as Wales, Scandinavia and Poland during the Middle Ages, and pronunciation (and even spelling) was adapted to suit the habits of the speaker. Consequently, we often hear “veni, vidi, vici” pronounced in “Church Latin,” which uses colloquial Italianisms and sounds to English speakers like “veiny, vidi, vichi.” It’s still Latin, but not the way Caesar would have said it. (The effect is like hearing Shakepeare performed with a Texas drawl, I guess. No offense meant to Texans, of course.)
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Eugenio MartÃnez Sierra
June 29th, 2007 at
4:53 am
Curious. In spanish we lots of this expressions but not every. And we use others too.
Ipso Facto and In media res are used a lot.
“Lupus est homo homini” was not said by the romans :Þ
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Steve
June 29th, 2007 at
5:38 am
here in Italy obviously we use a lot of latin phrases, generally mispelled miserily. a couple of the most used are
“De gustibus non disputandum”
“It’s not possible to give judgements about personal taste”“Errare humanum est, perseverare autem diabolicum”
“make a mistake is human, but it’s fiendish to persist” -
Tommie Nygren
June 29th, 2007 at
5:51 am
“But mostly, it’s worth learning a bit of Latin because omnia dicta fortiori, si dicta Latina: everything sounds more impressive when said in Latin.”
Perhaps the lousiest reason to learn anything. “It will impress people”.
The only reason to throw around a lot of Latin, a dead language, is to appear smart, more educated, than people not knowing Latin. Well, you aren’t because that is just like me talking swedish with english-only-speakers in the room. It’s being “not nice” or even “rude”.
Using fancy language for the sake of fancy language is idiotic. Using fancy language to express ideas that actually require that language - is not.
Cheers
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v.dog
June 29th, 2007 at
5:52 am
A couple of my favourites:
Ne plus ultra - no more beyond
Non compos mentis - not of sound mind. -
McGluut
June 29th, 2007 at
6:17 am
Ad Fundum: To the bottom / To the end
Commonly said when a friend is being a ‘laffe drinker’.
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eduo
June 29th, 2007 at
6:23 am
As H says, “Veni, vidi, vici” should be pronounced the first word as “Benny” with a V, and the other two rhyming with “Vinnie”
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Jerse
June 29th, 2007 at
7:18 am
Umm… that thing about China and Kansas - not true.
Kansas is opposite the Indian Ocean. Not one piece of land in the United States is directly across the world from China.
So much for digging that hole…
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fgb
June 29th, 2007 at
7:35 am
Sorry, H & Eduo, but you are both incorrect. You are confusing church Latin (as spoken in the middle ages) with classical Latin (as spoken in Rome).
In classical Latin, there is no consonant V. There is a vowel U which is written exactly like the modern day V.
When-E, Weedy, Weekee *is* the correct pronunciation. (unless you’re in a medieval church, of course).
Whew! Four years of Latin in high school finally paid off!
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Haymoon
June 29th, 2007 at
7:43 am
Contra nos bonum est tibi
A Guinness is good for you
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Brim
June 29th, 2007 at
8:15 am
In America, the promised land of lawsuits, more appropriate phrase is “Caveat venditor”, let te seller beware
Die dulci freure! (Have a nice day!)
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Sid Morrison
June 29th, 2007 at
8:59 am
Regarding the pronounciation of “V” :
Latin was a language that was “alive” for a VERY long time. The Latin of Cicero was not exactly the same Latin spoken in the Rennaisance. Spelling, grammar, and yes, pronounciation changed over time (linguists can tell this by studying verse written in varied periods — they can deduce pronounciation by fiuring what should rhyme with what, etc.).
Depending on whom you learn your Latin from, you will pronouce the V as is pronounced in English today or you will pronounce it like a W. If you are being taught Classical (early) Latin, your instructor will use the “W” pronounciation, if you are taught late Latin or Ecclesiastical (Church) Latin, you’ll get the “V” sound. Neither is incorrect, unless the context is specified and you get it wrong. For what it is worth, Caesar would have used something more akin to the “W” pronounciation, though.
Straight talk from Sid.
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Victor
June 29th, 2007 at
9:20 am
@Steve, it’s “De gustibus non (est) disputandum.”
Or if you prefer, “Non disputandum de gustibus est.”
I’ve always heard the impress-people quote as “Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur”: everything in Latin sounds profound.
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Bruno Wroblewski
June 29th, 2007 at
9:34 am
And, of course, the synthetic latin phrase:-
Illegitemi non carborundum
(Don’t let the bastards grind you down) -
Kate
June 29th, 2007 at
9:36 am
Regarding all the quibbling about the proper pronunciation of veni (or anything else), keep in mind that Latin was an actively spoken language for well over a thousand years across a number of different regions of Europe and the Mediterranean. Cicero, Bede and Bernard of Clairvaux would have all had rather different ideas about how to pronounce things. (Of course, given the origin of this particular phrase, a classical Roman pronunciation might be preferable, if somewhat difficult to pin down with any certainty.)
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Casual Visitor
June 29th, 2007 at
10:02 am
“Illegitimi Non Carborundum”
How can we leave this one out?
http://www.google.com/search?q=illegitimi+non+carborundum -
Dan
June 29th, 2007 at
10:19 am
That bunk about the letter V being pronounced like a W. It all sprang from a single latin textbook used in the 1930s. How could we possibly know how the Romans pronounced their letters? The best guess we have is modern-day Italian. Plus… it just sounds better. Wenny widdy wicky just sounds pathetic. Innit.
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Civis!
June 29th, 2007 at
10:21 am
as my old teacher always told me, “semper ubi sub ubi” or always wear under wear (really its always where under where)
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Caesar
June 29th, 2007 at
10:23 am
10 bucks for a translation:
“Culus bebedorum dominus non habet” -
Mufadal
June 29th, 2007 at
10:27 am
Having studied Latin for 9 years, and reading Classics at university at the moment i’m curious to find that people think the ‘v’ sound exists in latin.
It does not.
Well, at least not in Classical Latin (whence most of these quotes derive) and thus way-nee is indeed an accurate phonetic representation of veni; however, transmitting the ictus in text is almost impossible. I would do a little recording and submit it, but i drank far too much gin last night.
ave atqve vale
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Daniela
June 29th, 2007 at
10:37 am
I’m going to have to agree with Dan. No one knows how Latin was originally pronounced, unless he is a Highlander, Timelord, Vampire, or other such immortal.
I am half-Italian, and it makes more sense to pronounce it with the Italian “c.”
VEN-i, VI-di, VI-chi.
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Parva Puella
June 29th, 2007 at
10:44 am
Caesar:
“The ass of a drunk does not have an owner”?
I’m only 2nd year Latin, so it’s probably very rough.
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Frank
June 29th, 2007 at
10:46 am
A couple of other good ones to know:
“casus belli” = lit. “case of war” or the list of threats and complaints that are used to justify warfare.
“res ipsa loquiter” = lit. “the thing itself speaks” or it speaks for itself. Often used to illustrate, in legal terms, that a wrong has been committed by virtue of the fact that damage has been done.
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me
June 29th, 2007 at
10:46 am
se non vero e ben trovato : even if it is not true, it is well conceived
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d'glenn
June 29th, 2007 at
11:09 am
I remain fond of “Ita, nos habemos non ullas bananas,” myself. Though I have fewer excuses to use it than “De gustibus …”.
How is it that the famous statement of that French philosopher failed to make the list? “Cogito ergo sum.” — often parodied in such ways as “Bibo ergo sum,” or my version, “Cogito ergo oblivio”“?
Y’all are aware of Henry Beard’s Latin For All Occasions (with such statements as “I have a catapult and I’m not afraid to use it”), right?
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Henrik
June 29th, 2007 at
11:11 am
Cogito Ergo Doleo - I think therefore I am depressed
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Steve
June 29th, 2007 at
11:22 am
My favorite or Latin palindromes. There’s the very famous latin palindrom riddle: “In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni” Which translates as “We dance around at night and are consumed by fire.” A riddle about moths.
Perhaps the coolest though is: “Sator Arepo Tenet Opera Rotas” Which is kind of meaningless “The sower Arepo holds the working wheel.”
What’s so cool about this one is that the palindrome also forms a word square:
SATOR
AREPO
TENET
OPERA
ROTASIt is the same in each direction.
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Waynee
June 29th, 2007 at
11:24 am
The “bunk about the letter V being pronounced like a W” actually sprang from technical analysis of the linguistic evidence that we do have access to about the way the Romans pronounced their language.
The basics: we have evidence not only from pronunciation in the Romance languages, but internal evidence from variations in Latin spelling and comparative evidence from borrowings into and from other languages. Consideration of this evidence has indicated that the consonantal U (which is what the v really is) was pronounced more like modern English W. This is generally accepted by people who have more than a modicum of concern for evidence and accuracy.
But don’t believe me, because I’m a nutcase on the internet and can say anything I want without anyone interfering with my jabbering. So I will provide bibliography: Vox Latina by W. Sidney Allen. It’s not long, and probably still available from the Cambridge University Press.
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Andrew Dupont
June 29th, 2007 at
11:37 am
When I took Latin in high school, I learned the “classical” pronunciations referred to in this post.
The “ecclesial” pronunciations are far more common and have the momentum of tradition, even though one could argue that the classical pronunciations are more “correct.” As long as you’re using one system or the other, and not mixing the two, I don’t think it it can really be considered incorrect.
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ripoff
June 29th, 2007 at
11:52 am
way to rip this out of this book: http://www.dangerousbookforboys.com/
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Sid Morrison
June 29th, 2007 at
1:19 pm
And by the way, the part about the “W” sound coming from a 1930s textbook is also rubbish. You can find a bunch of scanned 19th century Latin texts on Google books, and they mostly employ “W” sounding pronounciation. The linguists who figured it out did so long ago.
Here’s an example from a 1897 text:
http://books.google.com/books?id=_rAAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1&dq=latin&as_brr=1 #PPP3,M1see page 3: “v like W”
And, for what it’s all worth, I personally prefer the Late Latin / Ecclesiastical pronounciation better. And, I like that they use the letter “J”. And I like punctuation as well! And lower case letters! All these things developed over time.
Straight talk from Sid.
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Alex
June 29th, 2007 at
1:30 pm
ripoff:
Dangerous Book for Boys, which happened to be reviewed in Neatorama courtesy of Harper Collins: published 2007 in the US (earlier in the UK).
Mental_floss’ Scatterbrained: published 2006, from the Scatterbrained section of mental_floss magazines published in previous years.
Latin: about 9th century BC.
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Alex
June 29th, 2007 at
1:31 pm
Steve - the palindromes are awesome!
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Caleb
June 29th, 2007 at
2:21 pm
“Veni, vidi, vici.” can be pronounced either way. The V’s are sharp if you’re using modern pronuciation, but if you’re using classical pronunciation, they are pronounced as W’s.
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Rootie Kazootie
June 29th, 2007 at
2:26 pm
Carpe Diem — Seize the day
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Ian
June 29th, 2007 at
2:31 pm
You’ve got i.e. but I can’t believe you’ve missed off e.g. (exempli gratia - for the sake of example). The misuse of these two is one of my biggest bugbears.
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Doug
June 29th, 2007 at
3:00 pm
I’ve always liked “In vino veritas” - truth in wine.
..so for all those people that say dumb stuff when drunk, the wine speaks the truth! -
dotmindlabs
June 29th, 2007 at
3:44 pm
I also like the “Post Scriptum”.
It was often used until recently almost disappeared, in the end of letters. When something was to be reminded…hasta
P.S. Carpe diem
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ninjamurf
June 29th, 2007 at
4:20 pm
Uh, Jerse, you’re just as wrong about that China thing as the original poster. If you dig straight down from Kansas you go through the center of the planet and end up in the SOUTHERN hemisphere much closer to Australia. I’m not sure where Kansas maps to without an atlas but I think San Diego goes “straight through” to Perth, Australia (which is why it’s one of our sister cities I think.) No one can dig “straight down” and end up in China if they start in the Northern Hemisphere.
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Hermenauta
June 29th, 2007 at
4:25 pm
#28:
“se non vero e ben trovato” is not latin. It´s italian, and the correct form is “Se non è vero, è ben trovatoâ€, with the same meaning you said.
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slx
June 29th, 2007 at
4:26 pm
I’ll mention “ad nauseam” because it is ad nauseam (female singular accusative first class), and not ad nauseum - nota bene.
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Jerse
June 29th, 2007 at
11:10 pm
Yeah ninjamurf - you have no idea what you’re talking about, do you?
Go to my original comment - this time read it…
…and San Diego is closer to the East of Africa
pwnd
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Watcher
June 29th, 2007 at
11:49 pm
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Who watches the watchers?)
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Kyle G.
June 30th, 2007 at
12:02 am
“Nihil Novi Sub Sole”
There is nothing new under the sun -
Amomynous
June 30th, 2007 at
12:10 am
About that Kansas thing, here’s a website that will tell you where you’ll come out when you dig a hole straight down.
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db
June 30th, 2007 at
12:15 am
“divide et impera”
meaning divide and rule, not conquer, as is wrong translated in many english books.
because to rule something for a long time is much more difficult than to conquer for a short period.
Romans knew it from their empire, americans realise it just now in Irak.
dubito ergo cogito. cogito ergo sum.
dixit.
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online tv
June 30th, 2007 at
12:24 am
Opus Dei..isn’t that a sect of Catholicism?
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CY
June 30th, 2007 at
12:32 am
What about “persona non grata”?
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Micha
June 30th, 2007 at
1:21 am
The coolest phrase I’ve always found to be “Hodi mihi cras tibi.” It was used by an undertaker in the street I worked and means “It is my lot today, yours tomorrow.” Brilliant.
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MadMolecule
June 30th, 2007 at
1:21 am
Frank, glad you mentioned it, but the spelling is “res ipsa loquitur.” Loquitur is linguistically analogous to “non sequitur” in this case.
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coloredapples
June 30th, 2007 at
1:55 am
the only thing i remember when we had latin class was: verbum sat sapienti.
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Lekics
June 30th, 2007 at
7:18 am
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Lekics
June 30th, 2007 at
7:21 am
(Sorry, didn’t realize you couldn’t do html.) Anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sic_transit_gloria_mundi
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Mark
June 30th, 2007 at
8:39 am
You should absolutely add “Mea Culpa” - My fault
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Steve L
June 30th, 2007 at
9:29 am
Oderint Dum Metuant-Let them hate provided they fear.
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ted
June 30th, 2007 at
9:29 am
OK, correcting a glaring error in the “correction” comments.
In media res is correct. The translation is “in the middle of the thing”.
“Lupus est homo homini”
“Homo homini lupus est”
“Homini homo est lupus”
“Est lupus homo homini”
“Est homini lupus homo”
et cetera… (which by the way isn’t on the list)all mean the same thing, since the ending of the words matter, not the order in the sentence. Romans used the word order to emphasize different words.
What I find funny about pronunciation is why they didn’t have words with particular sounds in them, like w and j.
Or why some native French speakers can’t seem to manage the “th” sound.
Anyways, Latin can be used to sound pompous, but it can also be used for fun.
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Eadipus
June 30th, 2007 at
9:49 am
FRAGOR FACIES NUNQUAM EMORIT • BANG FACE WILL NEVER DIE
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Latin-Teacher
June 30th, 2007 at
10:08 am
The Romans had many words with the -W- Sound in them. Veni, Vidi, and Vici to name a few. The -V- which we inherited was used as BOTH a consonant and a Vowel. (To whomever said the Romans had no Consonant -V-: sorry fella.) The Consonant -V- sounds like an english W, and can be heard in Veni (When-ee) or Vici (Whee-Kee). The Vowel -V- became the vowel -U- in english. We see the Latin vowel V in words such as Tva (Too-Ah).
The Romans also had two -I-’s, a consonant pronounced like a -Y-, the first I in Iacio (Yak-Ee-O), or the second I in Iacio. (Which is a verb meaning to throw).Also: No one knows how Latin was truly pronounced? This is not entirely true. We have a pretty good idea how it was pronounced, sorted out by very clever linguists. However, there’s always some jerk who will say “But yes… You don’t know for sure do you!” and any good Professor having studied Socrates will admit “Er, Rather, I suppose not.” But we are more sure than not on Ciceronian Latin pronounciation.
Hard C’s (not Chhhh’s of Italian or Ssss’s of English) (Caesar becomes Kaiser in German. Not See-ser, and not Cheese-er.
Soft V’s
Mushy J’s (like Ys.)
and the Vowel sounds are different than english. So, any arguments about “You wouldn’t pronounce Benny this way would you!” Have no bearing on this conversation.A final thought to those who think Latin is useless: illa carmina pulcherrima (this most pretty poem) would be unavailable to me if I didn’t speak Latin, save for a soul-less, probably incorrect translation:
Odi et Amo. Quare id faciam, fortasse requiris?
Nescio, sed fieri sentio et excrucior. -
Gary
June 30th, 2007 at
3:21 pm
Forgot: Quid Pro Quo - Etymology: New Latin, something for something. Something given or received for something else; also a deal arranging a quid pro quo
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D17182
June 30th, 2007 at
3:28 pm
Non est levi astae terra via
There is no easy way from the earth to the stars.Aut inveniam viam aut faciem
Either I will find a way or I will make one.Exempli Gratia, e.g.
For exampleIbidem, ibid.
At the same place -
ste
June 30th, 2007 at
5:37 pm
my favourites are:
quo vadis? eo corporis - where are you going? i’m going… ehm.. to the toilet
ubi maior, minor cessat
et mihi? - it sounds like “who cares?”
graecum est; non legitur
Ave Cesare, morituri te salutant!
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ted
July 1st, 2007 at
9:29 am
Oops, I screwed up about the W sound. I meant to say the V and J sound.
I seem to recall the ancient Greeks had a letter for the W sound, but then stopped using it.
iacta alea est - the die is cast.
alea feles est - the die is cats.Did you know there was a Latin Wikipaedia: Vicipaedia.
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MJS
July 1st, 2007 at
2:11 pm
My favorite:
Ubi dubi flagellatum…When in doubt, whip it out.
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Lemons
July 1st, 2007 at
10:34 pm
I salute all the people who quoted Catullus.
However, I also think “Quo usque tandem abutere, Catalina, patientia nostra?” *must* be included.
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Mack
July 2nd, 2007 at
10:48 pm
Abyssus abyssum invocat - Hell calls hell
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Alan
July 4th, 2007 at
3:57 am
About Kansas going all the way up and all the way down, you’re not thinking of it properly. I think they mean “all the way down to the center of the earth,” not “all the way down ad infinitum.”
If you take the outline of Kansas, and extrapolate it into the center of the earth, it will get smaller and smaller until it finally reaches zero at the very center. It’s like cutting a slice of pie, except in 3D instead of 2D.
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Brad
July 4th, 2007 at
4:33 am
Apparently everyone’s forgotten Schopenhauer: “obit anus, abit onus.”
He had pushed his neighbor lady down the stairs, and he was made to pay damages to her for 20 years. When she finally died, he quipped the above.
.
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Caligula
July 4th, 2007 at
4:39 am
“ceterus paribus”
“per se”
which I had in my HD, but have since lost the meanings and distinctions between the two. Perhaps any sharper scholar will fill in?
“de jure” of law (as is written in the laws)
“de facto” of fact (as exists in reality)
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Remus
July 4th, 2007 at
8:55 am
Cartago delenda est - Carthage must be destroyed
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Schoeurtieghe
July 4th, 2007 at
9:12 am
Mutatis mutandis
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R.P. McCosker
July 4th, 2007 at
2:50 pm
Here’re two useful Latin phrases with similar meanings I’ve encountered recently:
(1) ex cathedra
(2) motu proprio
Aside from the literal differences between them (”from the chair,” “on one’s own motion”), their modern idiomatic usage (other than theological use in the Roman Catholic Church) is similar, something along the lines of “conceived on one’s own authority.”
Can anyone reading here explain to me the modern idiomatic differences in the uses of ex cathedra and of motu proprio?
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T. T. Tomko
July 4th, 2007 at
9:29 pm
How is it possible that no one, but no one, reading this website mentioned the most important and relevant latin phrase which each and every one of us should be aware of? Cui bono! Which is what Cicero is reputed to have said when a new piece of legislation was passed in the Roman senate: Who benefits? Who indeed with the rivers of new legislation cascading out of the 49 states and the imperial halls of congress?
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Sete
July 4th, 2007 at
9:29 pm
Ubi bene, ibi patria - Where I am happy (feel good), there is my country.
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MIke
July 12th, 2007 at
1:50 pm
Cave Canem!!
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R.P. McCosker
July 17th, 2007 at
4:25 am
This phrase is listed in the opening discussion: “Citius altius fortius,” meaning faster, higher, stronger (the motto of the modern Olympics).
It occurred to me that this English translation is similar to the unofficial motto of the modern age’s computer hardware industry, “Smaller, faster, cheaper.”
How does one say “smaller, faster, cheaper” in Latin?
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Alex
July 17th, 2007 at
11:02 am
smaller, faster, cheaper: minusculus, citius, vilitus?
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Bob
August 8th, 2007 at
7:17 pm
Just wanted to say that in Catholic school, I was taught Latin by a priest, and he used the W sound, so it’s strange to hear people say that the “Church” Latin uses the V sound.
But I also wanted to say, that even though we were taught to use the W sound, the V does sound a *lot* better.
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Les
August 8th, 2007 at
9:29 pm
RP McKosker,
My understanding is that “ex Cathedra” means the Pope is speaking from God, and the words are therefore infallible (Popes rarely do this) while “motu Proprio” means he is speaking solely on his own authority. -
Moebius
September 30th, 2007 at
11:53 am
Pulherima omnia puelarum es
this is for you guys, learn it and impress ur girls… -
NBA Rumours
March 1st, 2008 at
12:57 am
Tabular rasa is the modular form
http://www.nbaopenforum.com -
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3:51 am
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o0
March 18th, 2008 at
4:07 pm
Your english translation of “veni, vidi, vici” was simply the most terrible thing I ever saw in my life.
Translate this: “Don’t act wise when you know not.”
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Winston Von Udrich
March 31st, 2008 at
2:21 pm
Veni, Vidi, Vici is basically pronounced how it looks… Its VEN-NEE, VEE-DEE, VEE-CHEE
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Becca
August 1st, 2008 at
11:54 am
Not that anyone’s reading these comments anymore, but one of my favorites (out of coolness) is “malo malo malo malo,” for which a rather loose translation is: “I’d rather be in an apple tree than a bad man in adversity.” Ah, the wonderful case-structure of Indo-European nouns.
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