The John Kerry "Stuck in Iraq" Flap.

1. Perceive
   November 3rd, 2006 at 2:00 am

   The only part of the incident I find noteworthy at all is that the media once again swarms over the latest 'scandal' like a bunch of insects, without any regard to the import of the event. This doesn't just apply to politics, but so many other things in the news that get a hefty chunk of coverage despite their relative insignificance. This whole news cycle thing is driving me nuts. If I'm going to get bombarded with the same story over and over, there had better be a damn good reason for it.

2. megmeg
   November 3rd, 2006 at 3:54 am

   I agree with Perceive... the media tends to become absorbed in one thing and it's so hard to actually hear about the stuff that matters. I don't care what celebrity has what baby or is breaking up with who, or if Nicole Richie fainted, or if Kerry told a stupid joke... I do care about the state of the Nation and the important world events that are going on while everyone else freaks out over silly things. It's sad when I have to go to British and other news sources to find out about what's going on in the world, and even sometimes in my own country.

3. Bryan
   November 3rd, 2006 at 6:22 am

   Geez, can't there be one site on the Internet that isn't spouting politics all the time? In what way can this post be classified as "neat?" If I want shrill politics, I'll go to the DaliyKos.

4. ted
   November 3rd, 2006 at 7:05 am

   Just another example of myopia - what's important to Americans surely must be important to the entire world.

   The political scandals that get the most press are usually the stupidest. In Canada, a lot of air time was given recently to whether one male representative called a female representative (his ex-girlfriend who went to another political party) a "dog" under his breath.

   Kerry's "lame joke" showed what he really thinks about the military: cannon fodder. Don't know if Bush thinks the same thing, but at least he has the common sense not to say it. Bush having sense? Wow.

5. DJ
   November 3rd, 2006 at 7:24 am

   ugh...

   Both parties suck, but do you really want this cool blog to suck too?

   How about starting a different blog for politics instead of alienating those of us who come here for apoltical "NEAT" stuff?

6. Farhad
   November 3rd, 2006 at 7:49 am

   It's last ditch clinging to the cliff-side with finger nails 'October Surprise' type of attack to try and wane the elections away from an angry retaliation due policy failure domestically and abroad.

7. gail
   November 3rd, 2006 at 8:36 am

   I don't care in the least what either of the political parties think about it, but all my soldier friends felt insulted.

8. wydraz
   November 3rd, 2006 at 8:57 am

   Unfortunately the joke wasn't really botched. If you listen to the whole thing, not just the last line, it is clear that he is talking about the president the whole time. In that context, the last line is perfectly clear. The only thing he botched was forgetting that the media would only take the "sound bite" at the end to make it look like his intent was different.

9. Graham
   November 3rd, 2006 at 9:01 am

   I think it's disgusting the way the troops have been suckered into believing that he was attacking them. One more time for those of you who may be a little confused....John Kerry is a WAR HERO. George Bush DRESSED AS A PILOT!

10. Bill Dance
    November 3rd, 2006 at 9:45 am

    Neatorama used to be good, what happened? Are you planning on running for an office soon...is that what this is about. I guess at least it's obvious this is a liberal website now.

11. Titus
    November 3rd, 2006 at 9:46 am

    Kerry just called it as he saw it. He just chose a very awkward time for it.

    As a European I don't understand the deification of the troops. Soldiers aren't supermen or heroes. They're people with a job. A really scary job.

12. gail
    November 3rd, 2006 at 9:54 am

    They aren't supermen, but they are people, they have feelings, and the ones I know are intelligent and dedicated. Whichever way you take the joke, whether it makes fun of the troops or the war itself, I don't think it's very funny when people are dying for what many of them believe is a good cause, whether someone agrees with that assessment or not. I don't think the joke was appropriate whichever way it was intended.

13. Moon
    November 3rd, 2006 at 9:55 am

    I think most people are seeing it for what it is, a desperate ploy by Bush and the GOP to try to grasp on to ANYTHING to get something going in this election.

    I LOVED the Minnesota National Guard picture, though. Hahahaa!

14. Ben
    November 3rd, 2006 at 10:05 am

    The hilarity of this situation is that if you listen to the preceding 3 minutes of speech it would take a simpleton to misinterpret it as a slam against the troops. Unfortunately for Kerry, he's an idiot, and doesn't take the time to think that what he's saying makes an excellent out of context soundbite that sounds bad (though true - we've been lowernig our troop standards to keep the recruitment rates up since this thing started).

15. David B
    November 3rd, 2006 at 10:06 am

    As far as I'm concerned Kerry's remark was a non issue. Had the media left it alone the majority of the nation would never have heard about it. Bush tried to make too much out of it. Are our military personel so fragile that this remark had a significant effect on their lives? Just one question should sum it up. Should the military, politicians and public be more concerned with a stupid remark from John Kerry or should we all be more concerned about the deaths of 103 Americans in Iraq in October?

16. travis
    November 3rd, 2006 at 10:08 am

    to post that photo of the troops holding up the mangled letter sign right after a liberal politcial cartoon shows neatorama isn't attempting to throw itself to the far side of either end of the debate on this subject. i think its a good balance. i'd really hope you guys would quit bitching.

17. Ben
    November 3rd, 2006 at 10:09 am

    BTW for those folks decrying any kind of political commentary in the face of an impending election - especially those using the term liberal like a curse: You don't have to be liberal or conservative to see that the congress and executive brach is full of deceitful, greedy, anti-freedom crooks who need to be thrown out in the interest of preserving democracy. You only have to read the paper in the morning and play connect the dots.

18. Carole
    November 3rd, 2006 at 10:25 am

    John Kerry is a brilliant strategist. His 'botched joke' wiped the only issue where Republicans will get out the vote in droves -- gay marriage rights -- off the radar.

19. rob nelson
    November 3rd, 2006 at 10:35 am

    I turn to neat-o-rama as a refuge from politics. I'd just as soon not have to see political cartoons here. I go to truthout, or democratic underground for that.
    Neat-o-rama restores my faith in the world, by highlighting creative, astonishing and awesome 'stuff'. Keep up the good work.

20. L.B.
    November 3rd, 2006 at 10:49 am

    The joke just goes to show why Kerry wasn't able to beat Bush in 2004: he's exactly the kind of Democrat that people were so fed up with when they made the insane decision to pick Bush the first time. Which candidate is more annoying? A person whose dumber than you are or a person who thinks you're dumber than they are?

21. dopealope
    November 3rd, 2006 at 10:55 am

    I think it's typical feigned Republican outrage to divert attention from matters of substance. However, I hope Neatorama doesn't become yet another political blog. You're doing great work here creating an Oasis from all that crap. After getting too angry after cruising dailykos or atrios, I come here for a chuckle.

22. Ben
    November 3rd, 2006 at 10:55 am

    As an aside, I went to a political event last night with long time congressman John Conyers from Detroit. It only served to reinforce the fact that I freakin hate liberal democrats. Why can't there be a "rational party" for those of us who don't love Jayeesus or hugging trees?

23. Becki
    November 3rd, 2006 at 11:08 am

    Do yourself a big favor Alex and never post on politics again.
    This is not "Neat", this is polarizing politics.
    You have one of the best pop culture blogs going. Don't alienate readers by turning into a Boingboing.net which spews hard core lefty hateful crap alongside the cool pop stuff. I stopped visiting that site when it got ridiculous.
    Of course - maybe you want to weed out the people who don't share your opinions on this issue, in which case you risk losing 50 percent of your audience.

24. Lee
    November 3rd, 2006 at 11:14 am

    Please leave the politics out of your website...

25. jhiu2r359q1yf
    November 3rd, 2006 at 11:16 am

    I think John Kerry made a Freudian slip. He didn't mean to say what he said, but that statement does represent what he believes.

26. John Kerry
    November 3rd, 2006 at 11:35 am

    I really do hate the troops, that's why I said they commited war crimes in 1971. Haven't you people been listening to what I have been saying.

27. Blacknimbus
    November 3rd, 2006 at 11:51 am

    It may have been a botched joke, but he really believes what he said. Otherwise he would have apologized the same day instead of stonewalling until he had to say he was sorry...sort of. And he already said the same thing.

    "In 1972, as he ran for the House, he was less apologetic in his comments about the merits of a volunteer army. He declared in the questionnaire that he opposed the draft but considered a volunteer army “a greater anathema.”

    “I am convinced a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown,” Kerry wrote. “We must not repeat the travesty of the inequities present during Vietnam. I also fear having a professional army that views the perpetuation of war crimes as simply ‘doing its job.’

    “Equally as important, a volunteer army with our present constitutional crisis takes accountability away from the president and put the people further from control over military activities,” he wrote."

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061102/D8L4QH580.html

28. Spencer
    November 3rd, 2006 at 11:52 am

    I find it interesting and sad that any one can argue that what Kerry said was a joke, botched or not. The troops are there to protect all of us, left right, middle, what ever. They VOLUNTEER to do this. The fact that a LIBERAL (Kerry) finds the troops lacking in decision making skills is not surprising, sadly. What I do find surprising is that one would think that after the fact calling it a "botched joke" would be enough to appease any one. I only hope that from now on any one who spouts any derogatory remark can get away with it by saying it was a "botched joke" if any one feel offended. Hopefully the phrase "botched joke " will become a - Free Pass - for any one who wants to put down any one they don't like or feel are beneath them. Some one should call Mel Gibson's pr company.

    I too am saddened to see this site go the way of boingboing...

29. Alice H
    November 3rd, 2006 at 12:16 pm

    "John Kerry is a brilliant strategist. His ‘botched joke’ wiped the only issue where Republicans will get out the vote in droves — gay marriage rights — off the radar."

    Actually, I think this is going to drive more Republicans to the polls this year. Frankly, most Republicans don't care enough about gay marriage/civil unions/domestic partnerships/etc. to go to the polls just to vote against it during a non-presidential election year, or they're like me - they're going to vote FOR it. Kerry has just managed to mobilize the right wing - and the gay rights movement will pay for it.

    If I were more of a conspiracy theorist, I'd say that Kerry did it on purpose to mobilize the right into voting, thus knocking down the gay rights bills that are coming up in this election. It's not like he has a sparkling track record in support of gay rights.

    But that'd be crazy talk, wouldn't it? Heck, assuming anything Kerry does is intentional would be crazy talk.

30. gail
    November 3rd, 2006 at 12:27 pm

    I think Alex did his best to try to open up a political subject in a nonpartisan way (by including graphics from both sides of the issue) but in today's climate, it is just extremely difficult for even the most innocuous political post to avoid ruffling someone's feathers. I'm a teacher of rhetoric and argumentation at a major university (so I'm supposed to be an expert) and when I post anything even vaguely political on my blog, I have to work extremely hard at wording it, and then I have to sit on top of it from minute to minute to keep the discussion from turning nasty in one way or another. Even then, I often don't succeed in keeping everything friendly and making everyone happy.I would ask those of you who are unhappy about this thread not to blame Alex for anything any one else said that might have annoyed you, and those of you who just hate politics (like me) to shake it off and go read the vast majority of the posts, which do in fact deal with the neatest stuff on the web.

31. Graham
    November 3rd, 2006 at 1:55 pm

    I'll say it again. he's a fucking war hero. And the reason he claimed American troops were involved in war crimes in Vietnam was because they WERE involved in war crimes in Vietnam.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

    And if Neatorama is suddenly deciding to get 'political', by opposing a group of people who want to make torture a feature of Western Democracy, then i say, about frikkin' time.

32. brayden
    November 3rd, 2006 at 6:42 pm

    Anyone who was/is insulted by this news story obviously has no idea what actually occured.

    Anyone who can think that John Kerry is anti-troops is a complete and utter moron.

    George Bush lied to the country to start an unjust war which has killed thousands of innocent Americans and has only made terror stronger throughout the world. Furthermore, he has done things like cut VA benefits and not provide the appropriate armor for troops.

    John Kerry was simply stating this fact. And if you don't get it, well then you just don't f*$@ing get it.

    To sum: John Kerry cares about soldiers; George Bush pretends to, but only cares about his own interests.

    Simple? It seems so. Yet half the country is too obtuse to figure it out. And, ironically, they are the half of the country who will suffer the most.

    What a bunch of morons we have in this nation.

33. Mike
    November 3rd, 2006 at 8:14 pm

    In short, I think Kerry is just trying to come off as human, rather than a plain old robotitian. The troops response made me giggle like a school girl, and it looks like they aren't too offended.

34. Moon
    November 3rd, 2006 at 8:47 pm

    “I am convinced a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown,” Kerry wrote. “We must not repeat the travesty of the inequities present during Vietnam. I also fear having a professional army that views the perpetuation of war crimes as simply ‘doing its job.’

    Well, Blacknimbus, he was right. It is and army of the poor and the black and the brown (Bush made a big deal of making Mexicans who fight in Iraq eligible for immediate citizenship, for example) and as far as war crimes? Does Abu Ghraib sound familiar?

35. Moon
    November 3rd, 2006 at 8:51 pm

    [i]John Kerry is a brilliant strategist. His ‘botched joke’ wiped the only issue where Republicans will get out the vote in droves — gay marriage rights — off the radar.[/i]

    Hahahaha, Carole! He's not that smart, though. He may be dumber than Bush and that's not an easy task.

36. Aleki
    November 4th, 2006 at 3:34 am

    I too come here as a refuge from politics. When all I hear is negative negative negative, It's refreshing to come to neatorama and and discuss "neat" things. But, here I am getting riled up over politics. Alex, you have the right to post whatever you deem fit, but maybe you should leave the politics to the other 95% of blog sites out there.

    Don't worry you're still my favorite web-site though.

37. Nick Burns
    November 4th, 2006 at 4:24 am

    The Joke:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o&eurl=

    The Response:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbZ5jPJk4Dg&eurl=

    Then there's this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc40lUpql10&eurl=

38. beajerry
    November 4th, 2006 at 5:29 am

    Why won't Kerry die?

39. bill
    November 4th, 2006 at 1:04 pm

    Sigh. Agreed; Neatorama used to be a good website. You need to get back to the neat stuff and lay off the one-sided political rants. Or put it on leftorama.com or some other site. Sheesh.

40. M.Sphinx
    November 4th, 2006 at 10:11 pm

    It says a lot that some of the right wingers on this thread castigate this site for spewing "hardcore lefty hateful ****", for simply showing some cartoons they don't agree with. Meanwhile, not one left winger on this thread objected to the picture of the Minnesota National Guard photo.

    Let me just say this about Kerry: he's so bad a politician, he actually made the choice to vote against Bush a difficult decision.

41. cbgaloot
    November 4th, 2006 at 10:11 pm

    Lost photo John Kerry's plea for halp

    I found this photo of John Kerry pleading for halp from Vietnam

    http://www.givemetheinfo.com/blog/blogger.html

    Seems John Kerry was stuk in veeyetnam long before anybody was ever stuck in Irak.

42. Strangerfilms
    November 5th, 2006 at 2:54 am

    I believe Neatorama should post more left wing cartoons and other neat progressive things.

    Blue congressional districts are Neatorama!

    Pissing off Republicans with spot on political cartoons is Neatorama!

    Reality is Neatorama!

43. Chad Cloman
    November 5th, 2006 at 4:57 am

    The Kerry flap is indicative of the Repulican party's misplaced priorities. I say this as a registered Republican. I can only think of two things they've accomplished since the 1994 "takeover": (1) repealing the 55MPH speed limit and (2) welfare reform.

44. pld
    November 5th, 2006 at 8:10 am

    Ahh, feels good to live in Europe. It really does.

45. Becki
    November 5th, 2006 at 6:55 pm

    Yes Alex - you've really opened up a scintillating dialog here, haven't you? I don't care whether you're right or left inclined; posting political entries your neat pop culture website just serves to spoil the site and dilute your reputation here. Perhaps you want to try posting on abortion, or the 2nd Amendment, or any number of other divisive issues and see how well those fit in amongst the pop culture entries.
    Makes no sense. Don't self destruct. Resume normal service please...

46. Brett_McS
    November 5th, 2006 at 8:25 pm

    The best John Kerry joke ever: John Kerry was a ****** war hero!

    #45 Becki is spot on.

47. Brett_McS
    November 5th, 2006 at 8:33 pm

    Best John Kerry joke ever: John Kerry was a war hero.

    #45 Becki, you are spot on.

48. Brett_McS
    November 5th, 2006 at 8:36 pm

    (Oops, sorry for the double post)

49. Alex
    November 5th, 2006 at 10:06 pm

    Believe it or not, I did post a comment on this post, but because of the server update, it got erased. Then I got really busy with the server move and couldn't post another response right away. Anyways, here's what I wrote (more or less):

    First of all, thank you for all of your comments - I suppose there's nothing like politics to spark a healthy round of debate and discussion. I also noticed a lot of first-time commenters, so for those folks, welcome!

    For those whose comments got erased, please know that it's not censorship - Neatorama got moved to a bigger (and hopefully, faster) server. For a while, there were two copies of Neatorama floating around on the Net - therefore those who commented on the "old" copy (me included), their comments got erased. I apologize for this.

    And let me say that for the most part, the comments are very articulate. I had feared that this would be an inane screaming match between the liberals and the conservatives. Believe me, I've had to erase some stupid comments on other posts on this blog (and even close the comment box)!

    Now, a number of people wanted Neatorama to stop posting political items. This is a fair request, given Neatorama's history of posting only "neat" stuff (some may argue that this is actually not true, for example, see the howls that I got for posting the Elephant Hanging story). However, I disagree and here's why:

    I'd like Neatorama to remain current, and in this election season, politics is a natural and important topic of discussion. Posting political news stories is one way to accomplish this, but there are other blogs that do this better (not to mention news websites).

    So, I decided that Neatorama will carry editorial cartoons. The blog now syndicates two cartoonists: Steve Sack of the Minneapolis Star Tribune and Nick Anderson of the Houston Chronicle.

    Now, these guys are award-winning cartoonists (Nick even won the 2005 Pulitzer Prize!), but I must confess that I chose them because I like their cartoon styles!

    Obviously, I don't control what they draw, although I do pick and choose which cartoons to post. Steve Sack is a liberal cartoonist, while Nick Anderson is a "in-the-middle" guy (or supposed to be anyhow, I think he's leaning to the left!). It's my intention to syndicate a third, conservative, cartoonist. But these guys cost money, and so I thought I'd start with two.

    Some people mentioned Boing Boing, DailyKos, and other prominent blogs. Let me say that it's an honor to be compared to them. Obviously, controversy didn't hurt them in the least bit, and I can only hope that Neatorama will continue to grow in readership just like these blogs.

    So, is Neatorama a liberal blog? I don't think so, but you be the judge. I don't mind if you either love or hate Neatorama, as long as you don't think it's boring!

    In closing, I'd like to thank everyone who commented - I appreciate their point of views. I hope you will continue to read the blog, participate by commenting and suggesting stories, and (I hope) telling your friends about Neatorama.

50. Brett_McS
    November 5th, 2006 at 10:29 pm

    Well, you did post the soldier's response (which was perfect) to the Kerry slur (intended or not), so it was not a one-sided post. If that is the standard for future "controversial" posts, it is not a bad one, and won't detract from the site's quality - which is superb.

51. Alex
    November 5th, 2006 at 10:46 pm

    The soldier's response was great! Thanks for the compliments, Brett_McS!

52. BenJCarter
    November 6th, 2006 at 1:59 am

    Aww man, I'm enjoying the neat-ass-stuff and wham, all of a sudden I've got politics all over my eyeballs.

    I want my money back...

    

    PS: Thanks for the excellent site.

53. Proud Wife of a US Soldier
    December 1st, 2006 at 8:35 pm

    In regards to the soldier's response...At least they have a sense of humor while they are stuck over there in that sh!thole!!! I'm honored to say that my husband is one of those guys serving with the MN National Guard in Iraq and I have never been more proud of him then I am today. GOD BLESS and SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!!!!! May you have a safe journey home...

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