A white moose was sighted in the forest of Østfold, Norway. Naturally, some Norwegians want to shoot it:
"It is surely entertaining to have an albino moose wandering in the woods but in purely breeding terms it is not right to let it live," Morten Brommdal, manager of the animal section at the Institute for Molecular Bioscience at the University of Oslo told Moss Avis.
"That so many people want the white moose to live is an emotional issue. It is exciting to have such a rarity rustling around. But if it is spared we risk the moose's breeding qualities spreading. Soon we might two, three, four or five albino moose in these wooded areas, something which in the long run can weaken the herd," said Brommdal, who pointed out that an albino moose is really a kind of 'mistake'.
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1484132.ece - via Scribal Terror
well thats a bit silly, do we go around shooting albino humans?
Well, no ... but there is no license for hunting albino humans. If there is a legit season for hunting the moose - then it seems ok to me. Being albino seems to be a recessive trait, and it's not a good one during the hunting season.
It seems like an albino moose would be at a disadvantage during hunting season and simply as a herd member. A white moose is easier to see whether its a predator or just a hunter. Nature will take its course, recessive albino traits are not going to weaken their moose population...
That's rediculous! So, we get to play God with moose because we think it's not good for them, but when the eastern countries are killing women because they think they're inferior, we say .. ."oh, that's not right".
Really, neither one is right. Let the animal live or die by it's own right, in it's own habitat.
Nate, thats such an idiotic argument. How can you compare killing a moose with a genetic fault which, if allowed to breed with other moose, could possibley weaken the entire moose population, with people in "eastern countries" killing women? Honestly.
This isn't us playing God, this is taking care of a problem before it can adversely affect the moose population. However, I'm with Akiro on this one, I doubt that this is really going to be much of a problem if you let it live. But then again, better safe than sorry.
Actually, I see Nate's point, even if it is a bit extreme and I don't reaqlly agree.
The fact is that albino animals pop up from time to time and we certainly don't need to hunt down and kill every albino animal in existence. The fact is that nature was doing fine without us and will continue to do so. No need to play God
Why not just neuter it? Then it can teach albino wisdom to the herd without sharing its dangerous genetic mutation. Though, yeah, as a white moose it probably doesn't have much of a lifespan as it stands.
I think you have to keep it in perspective. These are people who depend on moose for food. If it threatens their healthy population like the scientists say... remove it. I agree on the zoo idea.
If this albino moose poses a threat to the moose gene pool, then why haven't previous albino mooses already devestated the moose populationn and turned them all albino? There is no threat.
eugenics...which isn't a bad thing....i think this should also be applied to humans as well...why on earth do we want to save the moose population from crappy genes but not our own kind...who the hell wants a bunch of useless retarded kids breeding?
Correct me if I am wrong but is not Norway normally covered with snow for several months of the year? Perhaps being albino *is* a desirable survival trait in that climate.
I say let the wolves decide. We humans should stay out of it. We're overthinking the whole problem, an all too common human trait. No other species would care that it's an albino. They only care whether it's made out of tasty, tasty nutritious meat. This attribute, of course, is true of all moose.
billy Says: i think this should also be applied to humans as well…why on earth do we want to save the moose population from crappy genes but not our own kind…who the hell wants a bunch of useless retarded kids breeding?
So you went and got yourself fixed, right? :-)
I say, let the Moose live. Let it breed a bit, until there's a decent number of albino moose out there. And *then* kill it, cause an albino moose hide would be pretty darn cool! ;)
Seriously, though.... Brommdal's comments are a bit extreme. The guy needs to get off his high horse. It's just a frickin MOOSE, fer chrissakes!
Uh, who was killing white Moose 200 years ago? 50 years ago. It seems the moose have been doing quite well by themselves. Some people, on the other hand, well, never mind.
Seems to me that the moose "suffers" from albinism, which is at worst a genetic disorder (and, as mentioned, it may even be beneficial). It's not some screwy fungus that kills all the trees or some dire emergency.
Do the opposite-gender moose in the area all find it hot? Hell, it may even help the herd, having a population of weak and sick animals to (literally) throw to the wolves.
It's fairly clear that being an albino does not give an animal of the woods (including a moose) an evolutionary advantage. If it did there would be more such animals (and mooses)... being brown does provide for an advantage, since the animal is harder to spot...
If moose have natural enemies (e.g. wolves) then the problem will solve itself. If moose do not anymore have but had (!) the wolves as natural enemies, then the fear of being visible to natural enemies is inbred, thus other moose will unlikely want to mate with such a moose...
In all cases though an albino moose is very easy to spot for legitimate hunters in Norway, so if there ever are to many albino moose, then they're easy hunting for them... (thus the "normal" moose have an evolutionary advantage)
conclusion: big deal, leave it alone. Maybe catch it as a novelty...
Okay, so there are a number of options: Capture it and put it in a zoo, Capture it and neuter it and place it back in the wild, or just shoot it.
I think option A or B would be much more humane. As for speculation on damage to the herd, it would seem being white in snow country would be a distinct advantage as long as there was snow on the ground, which is most of the year.
Albino creatures are sacred to many Native American tribes. Maybe we should be asking why, instead of just shooting them dead whenever we see them?
How would being part albino WEAKEN an entire herd? There have probably been albino moose before and there will be a few after this. Just let nature take its course already!
Wolves of Norway are nearly extinct, leaving humans with the responsibility of controlling the moose population. Albinism almost always comes with moderate to severe vision impairment. So any argument about it being beneficial is almost certainly incorrect. Because albinism often produces photosensitivity, the moose would be almost totally blind and in pain in an environment as bright as Norway's arctic long days and bright white snow. So given the highly genetic nature of the albinism trait, it would probably be best for the population if this particular moose were at least sterilized. And no, we don't kill people with albinism. But if you can develop a personal relationship with a moose and convince it to wear corrective lenses and submit to sterilization, make sure and let us know.
Well, if hunters are already what controls the moose population, then it probably will end up being shot. Not becasue it will preserve the genetic purity of moose in Norway, but because a hunter will see it and shoot it because it is easier to spot. But this whole garbage statement about how it endangers all the moose? That's hogwash. Otherwise the moose population of Norway would've already been decimated by albinism.
Well - it's not so much a discussion about wether or not the moose should be killed because it's an albino. It's moose hunting season now, and the discussion is about wether it should be spared, since it's so rare and white and cuddly.
And about linking this to killing albino people - that's just stupid. Does the law specifically protect albinos? Can they not be sentenced to death? Of course they can! (assuming the the state or country practices the death penalty, obviously).
I'm sooooo tired of we mere humans thinking we are God. If the animal is born and lives, then let it live. Who are we to decide the fate of one of God's creations? Humble yourself just a little bit. How did it become our decision to decide who/what lives or does not?
Geneisi 1 vrs 24 - God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the livestock, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
So I guess we are supposed to decide the fate of "god's creations" LosetheGodcomplex....
1. Albinism is a recessive gene, and in no way poses a threat to the survival of ANY species. Only 1 in 17,000 humans are albinos; nobody kills humans for that reason, so you'd think that if albinism in any species was going to be an over-breeding risk, it would be in ours.
2. If we're going to shoot albino moose because of some supposed threat to their gene pool, we should likewise shoot albino dogs, cats, deer and every other species of animal that occasionally throws an albino. And why stop there? We actually artificially breed dogs like bulldogs and greyhounds, knowing full well that they will have serious and chronic health problems because of their breeding!
3. Norwegians no more *have* to rely on moose for food than the Japanese have to rely on fugu or New Yorkers have to rely on McDonalds, for food. It's a matter of preference, not necessity.
So, the fear is that there will be more albino moose around? How long, exactly, does this "scientist" believe the moose have existed? Surely more than 20 years. If this could turn into a problem, it would be a problem already.
ok - so just to clear this up. I don't agree that the desire to kill the moose stems from some kind of "God Complex". If you are legitimately permitted to hunt the moose, IMO - there is NO problem shooting the albino moose.
There is no perverse desire to kill "all white moose", just to shoot "a moose".
BTW - it's FUNNY the animal story gets an order of magnitude more comments than any other.
Send it to a zoo, neuter it, whatever, just don't shoot it for any reason other than it's so cute and everyone should get to experience the mysteries and wonders of nature, even if they are 'mistakes'
If we wanted perfection, we would've let Hitler continue with the Aryan race.
Are you people serious? Come off it. What they're recommending is for the good of the herd. You anthropomorphizing this animal, and attributing too much significance to its color.
Yes, it's pretty cool. But it will not be cool if there's a bunch of half-blind white meese running around stomping all over the place. Do you even realize how large a moose is? Can you imagine the havoc that would wreak?
Personally, I've got no opinion. My personal hope is that if it doesn't get taken down during hunting season, a natural predator will take it out. Darwin in action, my friends. There's a good reason why albinism is not a dominant trait.
Native American Indians once looked upon the white bear as a spirit... Leave the moose alone. We're too involved in the gene pool already to start messing up what mother nature has created. Granted she created us and the white moose, but then look what we've done to the rest of the planet.... What will this moose do? Nothing likey but possibly inspire us and offer a sense of wonder as to what nature can offer.
"If you are legitimately permitted to hunt the moose, IMO - there is NO problem shooting the albino moose."
What you actually mean is that people have claimed that they have the legal right to kill another species. Because I don't recall the other species being asked to vote for whether or not our species is "permitted" to kill them. I don't recall reading such permission in international law. Perhaps Zeus or Yahweh told you it was permitted.
"BTW - it’s FUNNY the animal story gets an order of magnitude more comments than any other."
Is it actually "funny", or is it just that some people identify humans fucking around with helpless animals as being something worth objecting to? Or are you OK with say, dogs being hung up by their back legs and beaten to death as they are in Korea? Or bull-baiting? Horse-whipping? Ortolan?
Soon we might two, three, four or five albino moose in these wooded areas, something which in the long run can weaken the herd," said Brommdal, who pointed out that an albino moose is really a kind of ‘mistake’.
"It’s not a 'mistake.' It’s natural selection."
PRECISELY! Every time a species mutates, it could be seen from the outside as a "mistake". However, speciation is often fortuitous, as mutation can give those who have it an evolutionary advantage to where they outlive or outcompete their "normal" kin.
We have white moose here in northern Canada. Only we found out that they are not albino but a new species.. and we are trying to stop the hunters from hunting them.. check out
"Weaken" the herd? If the herd handles a few albino genes, it's proof that they aren't a problem. If it doesn't, well, the albino genes go away by themselves.
There are really no good and bad genes. If they survive, they survive, if not, they don't, and that's that. Scientists, of all people, should understand this? Nature doesn't need help in deciding which genes are "good" or "bad", not with moose, not with humans.
shoot the stupid guy man.. so tired of this f-cking antropocentric view.... yes, let's kill anything different, anything new, anything that's not "profitable"...
Call me Ishmael. Some years ago -- never mind how long precisely -- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me IRL, I thought I would surf about a little and see the digital part of the world. It is a way I have of driving off the spleen, and regulating the circulation. In this way did I come across the tale of the white moose.
Already several fatalities had attended his chase. But though similar disasters, however little bruited abroad, were by no means unusual in Norway; yet, in most instances, such seemed the White Moose's infernal aforethought of ferocity, that every dismembering or death that he caused, was not wholly regarded as having been inflicted by an unintelligent agent.
Death to Moosey Dick! God hunt us all, if we do not hunt Moosey Dick to his death! But what hunter would take up the chase?
That hunter was Asbjorn Ahab.
And then it was, that suddenly sweeping his sickle-shaped antler beneath him, Moosey Dick had reaped away Ahab's leg, as a mower a blade of grass in the field.... Small reason was there to doubt, then, that ever since that almost fatal encounter, Ahab had cherished a wild vindictiveness against the moose, all the more fell for that in his frantic morbidness he at last came to identify with him, not only all his bodily woes, but all his intellectual and spiritual exasperations.
He piled upon the moose's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it.
The bullet was darted; the stricken moose flew forward; with igniting velocity the tent's guy line ran through the groove; -- ran foul. Ahab stooped to clear it; he did clear it; but the flying turn caught him round the neck, and voicelessly as Turkish mutes bowstring their victim, he was shot out of the camp, ere the crew knew he was gone. Next instant, the heavy tent peg in the rope's final end flew out of the stark-empty tent, knocked down another man, and smiting a tree, disappeared in the forest depths.
I'm no trained scientist or expert on evolution, but isn't the very basis of evolution theory that lifeforms evolve because of mutation? Genes that cause bad mutations are eliminated because the organisms don't survive and reproduce. Yet, "good" mutations create more successful organisms, which in turn reproduce and "strengthen the herd." The comment about the possible advantage of a white moose in the snow is very interesting. Why not let nature give the answer as to whether it is truly better? (of course humans are part of the whole system, and if being white gets you killed by a bunch of humans, for whatever reason, i guess it's a bad trait...)
Greetings All, I am a real live "in the flesh" human albino. Thankfully, no one has shot me yet.
Albinism is indeed a recessive trait. Both parents must be carriers of the gene in order for offspring to be affected. In cases where both parents are unaffected, there is a 1 in 4 chance with ever pregnancy that the child will be affected.
As noted, albinism is always accompanied by vision loss. Many humans with albinism cannot see well enough to drive a car in many U.S. states. Nystagmus (an involuntary motion of the eye) and photophobia (an extreme sensitivity to light) are also part of the package.
There are exceedingly rare types of albinism that cause additional health issue (i.e. bleeding disorders or autoimmune issues). Those are few and far between.
Albinism can appear in any species or race. In western caucasions the incidence is 1 in 17,000. In some Native American tribes it is as low as 1 in 25. In some African tribes is as low as 1 in 100. In Africa, the most common cause of death for an albino is skin cancer due to the agriculutral nature of their industry.
I've dated non-albinos and albinos. It happend that the man who posessed the traits I sought in a husband also happened to have albinism. There are three major types of albinism and we have the same type; thus, both of our children are affected. We knew this in advance and decided to have kids anyway. We did this on purpose. Albinism is an inconvenience not a life stopper. The biggest challenges are social, not physical.
Western society despises anything that is "different". That 's what makes it hard to be an albino, there are work arounds for the visual issues (a computer, a magnifying glass and a good pair of sun glasses), The challenge lies in dealing with people who think things such as
"eugenics…which isn’t a bad thing….i think this should also be applied to humans as well…why on earth do we want to save the moose population from crappy genes but not our own kind…who the hell wants a bunch of useless retarded kids breeding?"
I life a completely normal life, I own my home, I own a successful business, I pay my taxes and am dependent on no one.
Leave the moose alone. Let it make its own way.
For more information on albinism, visit http://www.albinism.org
The notion that people of Norway only have to go to McDonalds to get their food is just stupid. There are a lot of people dependant on moose for sheer subsistance. The hunters are the ones who feed their families off of moose. Having grown up in Alaska I'm very intimate on this discussion. It's the hunters who have mouths to feed who rely on a healthy herd of moose who should decide this, not a bunch of people living in cities thinking they only have to go to McDonalds.
And speking from experience... Being an albino moose is not a genetic advantage. There's a reason they're colored the way they are... they are very hard to see in both winter and summer. Anybody who's lived around moose can testify to that.
Unglaublich! Ich hoffe sehr das Tier verkriecht sich irgendwo und kein Depp findets. Als ob es nicht Wichtigeres zu erschiessen gaebe als ein weisses Moose.
Bei uns gibt es schwarzes Rehwild und kein vernünftiger Heger rottet es aus. Man sollte solche Abweichungen nicht unbedingt immer korrigieren; sie sind doch ganz reizvoll.
With 450.000 moose there's no need to let it live. But there's also no need to kill it. When a single albino can make a white herd after some time and white moose appear from time to time, then a few must have lived hundreds and thousands of years ago. Did they cause all moose to be white today or did they exterminate the moose? They didn't, so Moron Brommdals brain would even rattle in a fly's skull. Better hunt him instead of the albino.
LOL!!! This is one of the funnies things i've ever read. norwegians dependant on moose? lol.we dont shoot the so we'll survive, we shoot them to keep population steady! the hunters are normal peps wiv normal jobs, we jst go hunting these 2weeks in oct.
and btw, winter in norway is from nov-feb, u may find some snow from the mountains in east n up. thanx to u're global warming, we reary got snow i Østfold, where i n the albino-moose live.
Morten Brommedal is the manager at the Institute of Molecular Bioscience at the University of Oslo. It would be interesting to hear the opinion of the SCIENTISTS at this institute, because Morten Brommedals statement, that "in purely breeding terms it is not right to let it live" is completely wrong - and I wonder how he can be at a scientific institute. Is this Norway? "Breeding terms" solely depend on the breeding goal, or not? For example, for our Danish Royal family, we have a whole herd of white deers - nowadays for fun, of course, but in the old days for hunting. It is a big tourist attraction. And a big breeding success. They will never have such a success in Norway with these managers!
ach, wir menschen sind schon anmaszend. Wir verdrangen immer mehr natur und tiere, weil wir uns ausbreiten und ausbreiten. Die natur kommt prima ohne uns aus und wird ueberleben. Wann lassen wir das eingreifen, abschiessen und vernichten.
Noch ist der Mars nicht bewohnbar, also noch keine entwarnung fuer die geschundene erde.
Reading the question "should white moose get shot?", I want to raise the question "should any moose get shot at all?" To get it a little further, aren't moose highly developed sentient beings, and isn't it a barbaric act to shoot them for consuming their meat?
what the hell ... if people usually shoot mooses in norway, that's just the way it is, sad but true. but i can't understand, why there should be a special reason to shoot the white one - sounds like kinda racism. ;-) in fact there are hundrets of albinos among hundrets of thousands of non-albinos. so why should this special guy be kinda so-called problem moose ?!? as michael said above, in germany we had bruno, the so-called problem bear. they shot him and since then, the world ´has not become a better place to be ... }:=)
Catch the moose alive, train it in slalomtaktik. Then of course sell it to Mercedes. For a good sum. They can make an "Elch-test", only for white customers. Than a couple of movies, like "Herbie". The moose needs a name. What about "Thorbjoern"?
Why call the moose a bear? (Thorbjoern -> Bjoern=bear)
The question is not if it should be shot or not, the question is if we shall let it be. cause its moosehunting-season, n a moose is a moose, so it wouldnt live for long cause its easy to find.
And its still alive, we got more photos now than ever. (btw the zoo dont want him, he is too rare)
Who are these people that want to decide if an animal can live or has to die.... only because of his skin color?! Is it not the nature that decided to become this moose born with white skin?! And in the same way, nature created this albino moose, nature will make him and his descendeds to survive or even underlie fitter creatures.
It's not that this process is something completely new. Nature is creating albinos all the time from time to time (this is called evolution... just for the people that want to kill this moose), and nature always found a balance between the races.
So, dont satisfy your shooting-addiction with such canting arguments. Let the moose live...
Those idiots that look at the white moose as a mistake probably think albino infants should be "done away with" to keep from weakening the "human breed".But what can one expect from such narrow minded people or just plain ignorant. There are so many other options to save this rare beauty....a true gift of God's creation. IT'S NOT YOUR CHOICE TO THIN OUT THE HERD. If you looked in the mirror, and saw something a little different from others...should you be disposed of or spared. The world would be truly boring if everything was the same only BARBARIANS could be so stupid!
I think, do not shoot the white moose. let nature regulate this by its own rules. A white animal in the woods is easier to spot for predators like wolves in summer, but in winter, it is surely an advantage... So maybe this could a new way for evolution to go or not. Who are we to decide how another species must develop? We are part of nature, we do not own it. Wolves and other predators like bears are also part of nature, but guns are surely not...
I can tell you that the moose is alive and well. Some locals decided to put it's picture on t-shirts and cofee mugs and sell them. So even though the hunters (there is a annual licenced hunt for moose going on in Norway every autumn) have a licence to kill any moose they want, they've decided not to take this particular individual out. The white moose is safe under the wings of capitalism:)
Don't kill something just because "it's THERE" -- try to make a buck out of it! That's what we tell the Amazonian rain forest dwellers and people of Africa and everyone else on the planet with money problems--don't destroy your resources. Open a wildlife refuge and let tourists pay a lot of money to take pictures of the rare white moose! Add big bucks to the GNP of Norway!
Dieser Albino-Elch soll sterben nach Meinung der Jäger, da es ein Fehler ist, daß er weiß ist. Ich meine, man sollte ihn leben lassen, denn: den Männern geht es immer nur ums töten!!! Was passiert denn mit den vielen Männern, die so einen klitzekleinen (ERB?)-Schaden haben und ständig Kriege führen, Menschen töten, Frauen und Kinder vergewaltigen und töten.....?!!! Die sollte man alle einmal weiß einfärben, und den armen Albin lieber in Ruhe lassen!!! Astrid Heitmann
Actually, has anyone done an image search for "Albino Mosse"? There are some great photos from all over the place...quite a few from Canada and Alaska.
Though I doubt this will alter the debate, Albino is not "weaker", per se. But what I find interesting in the photos I have seen, is how well they seem to blend in with paper birch trees. Add some snow and they could have a good camoflauge (sp?) going on!
Many cultures revere albino animals as being sacred....whether they are or not doesn't really matter. The belief that they are is enough to strike a debate :-D
Also, Xavier Rowe....it may seem like a silly conversation to you, but it sure makes more sense to me than the ad nauseum coverage of "Miss USA Gone Bad" and "The Donald".....gag.
Just wanted to let you know that another white moose is seen in Norway. I think it is one of very few video shots of a White Moose. It is from Kárášjohka/Karasjok, Norway. The exact location is not indicated, but the moose has been spotted numerous times last fall, and as far as I know it did survive this years Moose hunt. This is the first time I’ve seen this phenomenon on video though.
Why would anyone even think to shoot the moose-I guess it's just because humans have guns and they can. Why on earth do humans feel teh need to control even living species? Because they have the weapons and they can. I wish they could be put on the other side - meaning the moose having the weapons and deciding to shoot the humans. Cruelty to animals is a sign of a sad world. Whatever happened to teh golden rule? When people say it's only a moose what does that mean? Isn't it the same to say it's only a human. Have a heart do what is right- treat all living things as you would want to be treated.
Last I checked it was legal to kill humans in some places. It's call capital punishment. Bad design=death penalty. At least that's what happened to Saddam..
I'm no expert but that moose looks pretty healthy and happy to me. The albino trait is recessive and will always be present in all our genes...even the moose. Let the thing live and enjoy it for what it is.
A moose is a moose. Whether it be albino or "normal". I am an avid hunter and fisherman. I kill only what I will eat, and nothing more. I personally would let the albino go by, but would have shot many pictures to show the folks at home. And to those concerned about capital punishment, they do a lot of testing to determine if you are aware of what you did and what the proposed punishment is. If you manage to outsmart the tests, you can become a burden to taxpayers, and live the rest of your life behind the walls of a mental facility or prison.
OK! God aside! Let it live. Let it meat is own fate (Yeah I spelled meet wrong for a reason). By wolves, by human etc. I'm a hunter and enjoy the meat more than anything! NATURALLY, it(the moose) is in the food chain and let us all not for get that! With or without a weapon, we can be gone is a second walking down the street or walking in the forest.
I propose a new theroy a derivative of the "At the top of the food chain" thoery either. "Any animal can move up and down the chain depedening on the situation". Hence just plain fate! I have heard moose killing wolves and wolves killing moose or Man killing moose or moose mauling or killing man! So there!
No time on this discussion at all. So does it live or die, let fate decide. Be it by man, wolf, bear, ticks, Cerebrospinal nematodiasis, and... you get the point!
The albino gene is carried in every single creature, and is rare. It gets passed on, no matter what, giving every creature a chance for Albino.
I love animals. I love hunting games, too! And for those who do make up escuses to not kill the albino creatures, well... It can depend. If we left the animal population go, then they would overpopulate. Thats where hunting comes in. We keep the animal population down, so its not overflowing. Don't try to say that I was excluding the wolves and bears, and every other creature, that kills. I wasn't.
Albino animals are pretty rare. If people claim that they are weak, I'm just wondering - How do they know? Perhaps they happen to find just very few that they noticed sick and dying. But capture others. Watch them. Study them. See who's weak!
Yes, we need food. Yes the population must be kept down, as above. But what about chickens? Cows? Ducks?! We aren't giving a riot about them! Where's they're right to live? "Oh, they live to produce eggs and milk, too." What about those who don't live? You know, over-hunting was what killed the Dodos. And perhaps, there is one creature that may never carry the albino gene - Or two, if you know -, and there's our chance to take out the weak albino creatures. What happenes in someone kills them, because they need food?
If albino animals are so weak, then help them! Just because they are different. We are all different. Blonde hair, Black hair, silver eyes. No one is exactly alike - Trust me, not even twins. Albino deer. Maybe look the same. But there is always a hair out of place. They always think differently. Every creature deserves a right to live. And if they are albino, it makes it harder for them, for predatores can easily see their white coat. So think now - Live, or die? There are tons of other animals to hunt! ALBINOS ARE NOT WEAK!
What characteristic in the white moose is bad for other moose to have? That is, what trait (besides coat color) is bad? [As has been said, a white coat in the winter is a protection.]
Really, neither one is right. Let the animal live or die by it's own right, in it's own habitat.
This isn't us playing God, this is taking care of a problem before it can adversely affect the moose population. However, I'm with Akiro on this one, I doubt that this is really going to be much of a problem if you let it live. But then again, better safe than sorry.
The fact is that albino animals pop up from time to time and we certainly don't need to hunt down and kill every albino animal in existence. The fact is that nature was doing fine without us and will continue to do so. No need to play God
I say let the wolves decide. We humans should stay out of it. We're overthinking the whole problem, an all too common human trait. No other species would care that it's an albino. They only care whether it's made out of tasty, tasty nutritious meat. This attribute, of course, is true of all moose.
i think this should also be applied to humans as well…why on earth do we want to save the moose population from crappy genes but not our own kind…who the hell wants a bunch of useless retarded kids breeding?
So you went and got yourself fixed, right? :-)
I say, let the Moose live. Let it breed a bit, until there's a decent number of albino moose out there. And *then* kill it, cause an albino moose hide would be pretty darn cool! ;)
Seriously, though.... Brommdal's comments are a bit extreme. The guy needs to get off his high horse. It's just a frickin MOOSE, fer chrissakes!
Do the opposite-gender moose in the area all find it hot? Hell, it may even help the herd, having a population of weak and sick animals to (literally) throw to the wolves.
Unless you've already shot all the wolves...
If moose have natural enemies (e.g. wolves) then the problem will solve itself.
If moose do not anymore have but had (!) the wolves as natural enemies, then the fear of being visible to natural enemies is inbred, thus other moose will unlikely want to mate with such a moose...
In all cases though an albino moose is very easy to spot for legitimate hunters in Norway, so if there ever are to many albino moose, then they're easy hunting for them... (thus the "normal" moose have an evolutionary advantage)
conclusion:
big deal, leave it alone. Maybe catch it as a novelty...
I think option A or B would be much more humane. As for speculation on damage to the herd, it would seem being white in snow country would be a distinct advantage as long as there was snow on the ground, which is most of the year.
Albino creatures are sacred to many Native American tribes. Maybe we should be asking why, instead of just shooting them dead whenever we see them?
How would being part albino WEAKEN an entire herd? There have probably been albino moose before and there will be a few after this. Just let nature take its course already!
So given the highly genetic nature of the albinism trait, it would probably be best for the population if this particular moose were at least sterilized.
And no, we don't kill people with albinism. But if you can develop a personal relationship with a moose and convince it to wear corrective lenses and submit to sterilization, make sure and let us know.
And about linking this to killing albino people - that's just stupid. Does the law specifically protect albinos? Can they not be sentenced to death? Of course they can! (assuming the the state or country practices the death penalty, obviously).
So I guess we are supposed to decide the fate of "god's creations" LosetheGodcomplex....
2. If we're going to shoot albino moose because of some supposed threat to their gene pool, we should likewise shoot albino dogs, cats, deer and every other species of animal that occasionally throws an albino. And why stop there? We actually artificially breed dogs like bulldogs and greyhounds, knowing full well that they will have serious and chronic health problems because of their breeding!
3. Norwegians no more *have* to rely on moose for food than the Japanese have to rely on fugu or New Yorkers have to rely on McDonalds, for food. It's a matter of preference, not necessity.
There is no perverse desire to kill "all white moose", just to shoot "a moose".
BTW - it's FUNNY the animal story gets an order of magnitude more comments than any other.
If we wanted perfection, we would've let Hitler continue with the Aryan race.
Yes, it's pretty cool. But it will not be cool if there's a bunch of half-blind white meese running around stomping all over the place. Do you even realize how large a moose is? Can you imagine the havoc that would wreak?
Personally, I've got no opinion. My personal hope is that if it doesn't get taken down during hunting season, a natural predator will take it out. Darwin in action, my friends. There's a good reason why albinism is not a dominant trait.
What you actually mean is that people have claimed that they have the legal right to kill another species. Because I don't recall the other species being asked to vote for whether or not our species is "permitted" to kill them. I don't recall reading such permission in international law. Perhaps Zeus or Yahweh told you it was permitted.
"BTW - it’s FUNNY the animal story gets an order of magnitude more comments than any other."
Is it actually "funny", or is it just that some people identify humans fucking around with helpless animals as being something worth objecting to? Or are you OK with say, dogs being hung up by their back legs and beaten to death as they are in Korea? Or bull-baiting? Horse-whipping? Ortolan?
It's not a "mistake." It's natural selection.
PRECISELY! Every time a species mutates, it could be seen from the outside as a "mistake". However, speciation is often fortuitous, as mutation can give those who have it an evolutionary advantage to where they outlive or outcompete their "normal" kin.
Only we found out that they are not albino but
a new species.. and we are trying to stop the hunters
from hunting them..
check out
www.whitemoose.ca
Ken
There are really no good and bad genes. If they survive, they survive, if not, they don't, and that's that. Scientists, of all people, should understand this? Nature doesn't need help in deciding which genes are "good" or "bad", not with moose, not with humans.
so tired man...
Already several fatalities had attended his chase. But though similar disasters, however little bruited abroad, were by no means unusual in Norway; yet, in most instances, such seemed the White Moose's infernal aforethought of ferocity, that every dismembering or death that he caused, was not wholly regarded as having been inflicted by an unintelligent agent.
Death to Moosey Dick! God hunt us all, if we do not hunt Moosey Dick to his death! But what hunter would take up the chase?
That hunter was Asbjorn Ahab.
And then it was, that suddenly sweeping his sickle-shaped antler beneath him, Moosey Dick had reaped away Ahab's leg, as a mower a blade of grass in the field.... Small reason was there to doubt, then, that ever since that almost fatal encounter, Ahab had cherished a wild vindictiveness against the moose, all the more fell for that in his frantic morbidness he at last came to identify with him, not only all his bodily woes, but all his intellectual and spiritual exasperations.
He piled upon the moose's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it.
The bullet was darted; the stricken moose flew forward; with igniting velocity the tent's guy line ran through the groove; -- ran foul. Ahab stooped to clear it; he did clear it; but the flying turn caught him round the neck, and voicelessly as Turkish mutes bowstring their victim, he was shot out of the camp, ere the crew knew he was gone. Next instant, the heavy tent peg in the rope's final end flew out of the stark-empty tent, knocked down another man, and smiting a tree, disappeared in the forest depths.
cheers!
I am a real live "in the flesh" human albino. Thankfully, no one has shot me yet.
Albinism is indeed a recessive trait. Both parents must be carriers of the gene in order for offspring to be affected. In cases where both parents are unaffected, there is a 1 in 4 chance with ever pregnancy that the child will be affected.
As noted, albinism is always accompanied by vision loss. Many humans with albinism cannot see well enough to drive a car in many U.S. states. Nystagmus (an involuntary motion of the eye) and photophobia (an extreme sensitivity to light) are also part of the package.
There are exceedingly rare types of albinism that cause additional health issue (i.e. bleeding disorders or autoimmune issues). Those are few and far between.
Albinism can appear in any species or race. In western caucasions the incidence is 1 in 17,000. In some Native American tribes it is as low as 1 in 25. In some African tribes is as low as 1 in 100. In Africa, the most common cause of death for an albino is skin cancer due to the agriculutral nature of their industry.
I've dated non-albinos and albinos. It happend that the man who posessed the traits I sought in a husband also happened to have albinism. There are three major types of albinism and we have the same type; thus, both of our children are affected. We knew this in advance and decided to have kids anyway. We did this on purpose. Albinism is an inconvenience not a life stopper. The biggest challenges are social, not physical.
Western society despises anything that is "different". That 's what makes it hard to be an albino, there are work arounds for the visual issues (a computer, a magnifying glass and a good pair of sun glasses), The challenge lies in dealing with people who think things such as
"eugenics…which isn’t a bad thing….i think this should also be applied to humans as well…why on earth do we want to save the moose population from crappy genes but not our own kind…who the hell wants a bunch of useless retarded kids breeding?"
I life a completely normal life, I own my home, I own a successful business, I pay my taxes and am dependent on no one.
Leave the moose alone. Let it make its own way.
For more information on albinism, visit http://www.albinism.org
And speking from experience... Being an albino moose is not a genetic advantage. There's a reason they're colored the way they are... they are very hard to see in both winter and summer. Anybody who's lived around moose can testify to that.
@the hunters: dont kill it, when u shoot it, u get big problems, ´cause the moose is in the hearts of the peoples.
i remember at the bear called bruno in bavaria.
One of them is my best friend ...
http://www.s.netic.de/phibes/no_shooting.jpg
But there's also no need to kill it.
When a single albino can make a white herd after some
time and white moose appear from time to time, then
a few must have lived hundreds and thousands of years
ago. Did they cause all moose to be white today or did
they exterminate the moose?
They didn't, so Moron Brommdals brain would even rattle
in a fly's skull. Better hunt him instead of the albino.
and btw, winter in norway is from nov-feb, u may find some snow from the mountains in east n up. thanx to u're global warming, we reary got snow i Østfold, where i n the albino-moose live.
now im gonna go have a nice meal at burger king.
Wir verdrangen immer mehr natur und tiere, weil wir uns ausbreiten und ausbreiten.
Die natur kommt prima ohne uns aus und wird ueberleben.
Wann lassen wir das eingreifen, abschiessen und vernichten.
Noch ist der Mars nicht bewohnbar, also noch keine entwarnung fuer die geschundene erde.
Lasst den elch leben.
We are all ashamed now.
Don't put shame on yourself, now.
DON'T SHOOT THE MOOSE!!!!!
Please.
To get it a little further, aren't moose highly developed sentient beings, and isn't it a barbaric act to shoot them for consuming their meat?
as michael said above, in germany we had bruno, the so-called problem bear. they shot him and since then, the world ´has not become a better place to be ... }:=)
train it in slalomtaktik.
Then of course sell it to Mercedes.
For a good sum.
They can make an "Elch-test",
only for white customers.
Than a couple of movies, like "Herbie".
The moose needs a name.
What about "Thorbjoern"?
The question is not if it should be shot or not, the question is if we shall let it be. cause its moosehunting-season, n a moose is a moose, so it wouldnt live for long cause its easy to find.
And its still alive, we got more photos now than ever. (btw the zoo dont want him, he is too rare)
http://www.whitemoose.ca/GreatWebs.htm
Personally, think they should be protected for many reasons including genetic preservation & tourism opportunities.
Is it not the nature that decided to become this moose born with white skin?! And in the same way, nature created this albino moose, nature will make him and his descendeds to survive or even underlie fitter creatures.
It's not that this process is something completely new. Nature is creating albinos all the time from time to time (this is called evolution... just for the people that want to kill this moose), and nature always found a balance between the races.
So, dont satisfy your shooting-addiction with such canting arguments.
Let the moose live...
albino infants should be "done away with" to keep from weakening the
"human breed".But what can one expect from such narrow minded people or
just plain ignorant. There are so many other options to save this rare
beauty....a true gift of God's creation. IT'S NOT YOUR CHOICE TO THIN
OUT THE HERD. If you looked in the mirror, and saw something a little
different from others...should you be disposed of or spared. The world
would be truly boring if everything was the same only BARBARIANS could
be so stupid!
let nature regulate this by its own rules.
A white animal in the woods is easier to spot for
predators like wolves in summer, but in winter, it is
surely an advantage... So maybe this could a new way for evolution to go or not.
Who are we to decide how another species must develop?
We are part of nature, we do not own it. Wolves and
other predators like bears are also part of nature, but guns are surely not...
There is no such thing as God. We're not "playing God" because God doesn't exist, you clueless sheep.
Killing because of a colour is ethically no correct. Killing is never correct.
What a terrible thing to even think of! Its such a beautiful animal and SOOO rare!
PLEASE dont kill it!
Michael
Georgia, United States
Though I doubt this will alter the debate, Albino is not "weaker", per se. But what I find interesting in the photos I have seen, is how well they seem to blend in with paper birch trees. Add some snow and they could have a good camoflauge (sp?) going on!
Many cultures revere albino animals as being sacred....whether they are or not doesn't really matter. The belief that they are is enough to strike a debate :-D
Also, Xavier Rowe....it may seem like a silly conversation to you, but it sure makes more sense to me than the ad nauseum coverage of "Miss USA Gone Bad" and "The Donald".....gag.
For more info see this page:
http://whitemoose.ca/jennasreport.html
Go check it out at:
http://www.daikos.net/category/moose/
Last I checked it was legal to kill humans in some places. It's call capital punishment. Bad design=death penalty. At least that's what happened to Saddam..
Let the thing live and enjoy it for what it is.
I propose a new theroy a derivative of the "At the top of the food chain" thoery either. "Any animal can move up and down the chain depedening on the situation". Hence just plain fate! I have heard moose killing wolves and wolves killing moose or Man killing moose or moose mauling or killing man! So there!
No time on this discussion at all. So does it live or die, let fate decide. Be it by man, wolf, bear, ticks, Cerebrospinal nematodiasis, and... you get the point!
I love animals. I love hunting games, too! And for those who do make up escuses to not kill the albino creatures, well... It can depend. If we left the animal population go, then they would overpopulate. Thats where hunting comes in. We keep the animal population down, so its not overflowing. Don't try to say that I was excluding the wolves and bears, and every other creature, that kills. I wasn't.
Albino animals are pretty rare. If people claim that they are weak, I'm just wondering - How do they know? Perhaps they happen to find just very few that they noticed sick and dying. But capture others. Watch them. Study them. See who's weak!
Yes, we need food. Yes the population must be kept down, as above. But what about chickens? Cows? Ducks?! We aren't giving a riot about them! Where's they're right to live? "Oh, they live to produce eggs and milk, too." What about those who don't live? You know, over-hunting was what killed the Dodos. And perhaps, there is one creature that may never carry the albino gene - Or two, if you know -, and there's our chance to take out the weak albino creatures. What happenes in someone kills them, because they need food?
If albino animals are so weak, then help them! Just because they are different. We are all different. Blonde hair, Black hair, silver eyes. No one is exactly alike - Trust me, not even twins. Albino deer. Maybe look the same. But there is always a hair out of place. They always think differently. Every creature deserves a right to live. And if they are albino, it makes it harder for them, for predatores can easily see their white coat. So think now - Live, or die? There are tons of other animals to hunt! ALBINOS ARE NOT WEAK!